Greenbush Ramp-Up

[sal]

Hi Wahaika,

I have a question about Saw Palmetto and would really appreciate your advice on this. I have heard that Saw Palmetto has anti-prolactin effects (i.e. it reduces prolactin in the body), now seeing that massage of the breasts increases prolactin levels and contributes to breast growth, is it wise to take Saw Palmetto supplements in association with the othe rherbs (Fenugreek and Wild Yam) ? should I still be taking Saw Palmetto at all?

Many thanks for all your help in advance,

[Wahaika]

Sal,

I have seen prolactin claims go both ways. I have seen where it is claimed to stimulate prolactin and where it is claimed to inhibit prolactin. Given that when men take Saw Palmetto in large doses the result is gynomastia, I would have to say that it is more likely to stimulate it.

Saw Palmetto is a DHT inhibitor. This is undisputed. By preventing testosterone from converting to DHT, there is more free testosterone available to aromatize into estrogen. So, I would say that it is a good thing to take with the estrogenic herbs at the right dosages - which is determined by ramping up slowly while paying attention to reactions by the body. Don't exceed 5 grams in a day. A high max/norm for BE would be 3 grams.

Wahaika

[jj]

Wahaika,

I really need your advice. I am trying to figure out a routine that will work for me. I am 47 and have breastfed three children. I am currently 32AA-AAA. At my largest, while breastfeeding, I was a B cup. I am 5'5" and 115 pounds. I have low blood pressure due to my adrenal glands not working sufficiently. To help correct this, I am currently taking some herbal formulas along with 75 mg of DHEA a day, given by my naturapath. The following is what I have been taking in addition to my regular daily vitamins/minerals and what the naturapath gave me:

500 mg of EPO- 3 times a day
575 mg of Fenugreek- 3 times a day
585 mg of Saw Palmetto berries - 3 times a day

I have been massaging twice a day, using cocoa butter, vitamin E oil, and fenugreek extract. My right breast is smaller than the left, so I am just massaging it. I have had some growth, there is a little more definition, but my right side hasn't caught up yet. In fact, my left side has grown some without any massages. I have been taking the herbs for about two months.

I have been feeling very tired and am wondering if I should be taking something like fennel instead of the fenugreek. I heard that fenugreek can lower blood pressure and that is not what I want to do. I would appreciate your help very much. You seem very knowledgeable. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks!!

[Wahaika]

Hello jj,

The first thing to do is to post a stats page and then copy over your routine to the routines page, just for easier reference.

The next thing is to read this thread - madredesiete's routine, especially the routine and theory messages on the first page. Also, the answers in the subsequent messages answer other questions that you may have and will help you understand the basic theory of how all of this works. The two most important things to understand while you are reading is the idea of ramping up dosages using "growing pains" as a guage. Growing pains are deep aches/itches/etc.

I have never been a fan of the cocoa butter/vitamin E method. I can show on a timeline that women who grow on herbs and then adopt that method stop dead in their tracks with only an exception or two. If one is to use that method, it should be used by itself with no herbs internally. But that's just my opinion on it. I think you are far better off using Greenbush extracts internally and extracts with Aloe Vera gel externally with the occasional use of a drop or two of DMSO externally.

I am not sure that fenugreek lowers blood pressure, but it is famous for lowering blood sugar. This is very likely the reason it lowers cholesterol. The quick fix is to eat hard candy. The longer term fix is to raise your carb intake.

My recommendation is to use madredesiete's routine with Greenbush herbs and/or extracts. There are other things also like Borage oil and a multivitamin.

As you are a 32 AA-AAA it appears to me that you are stalled or close to it. Your size is very sensitive as it is easy to stall and growth is going to be very slow naturally. There are two ways to go. 1) Do what you are doing but add herbs to your massage routine. 2) Start over and ramp up your dosages until you feel growing pains.

Either way, you will have to massage herbs into both sides two or three times per day. BTW, grow both sides and even them out later when you have more ability to control the growth. The smaller side may catch up anyway.

Hope this helps. We can continue this in your routine thread.

Wahaika

[jj]

Thanks Wahaika,

I appreciate your help. I will try and follow your suggestions. Just wondering if using fennel will work instead of fenugreek? I don't like the way I feel when I am taking the fenugreek.

Thanks,

JJ

[Wahaika]

jj,

Yep, fennel should be OK. As long as you ramp up the dosages.

Wahaika

[Wahaika]

OK, I deleted all of mine from the one you started with, forward. If you delete yours then that should do it.

[bubblegum]

Hello Wahaika,

This is my first discussion post ever. In the "booby batter" with the 1/2 cup olive oil, 1/2 cup fenugreek, and 24 borage oil. I'm figuring that is about 5 tsp of borage oil. Does that sound right? Also, should the fenugreek be extract or ground?

You are very thorough with your information and instructions, and your time and effort given to helping others is commendable--thank you.

[Wahaika]

Hello bubblegum,

I don't know how much Borage Oil that is in tsps. It is just 24 one gram capsules broken open and added to the batter.

The fenugreek is ground into powder - Greenbush.

[bubblegum]

Thank you, Wahaika-
I contacted Barleans about the equivalency of the borage oil, since I already ordered the oil from there. It is 24 - 1000mg gel caps = 1.7 Tbsps. I just received my fenugreek and fennel powder today for tea, so I'll be good to go on the booby batter too.
bubblegum

[bubblegum]

Wahaika,
I let the "booby batter" sit for a week. It is very runny with the fenugreek settling on the bottom, and it is gritty. Does this sound right, or did I screw something up?
bubblegum

[snowqueen67]

Mine always looks like that - I just "stir" it up a bit before I use it...generally a very messy business.

rebecca

[Wahaika]

Yep, just shake it up once a day and before you use it.

[quirkygirl]

Hi Wahaika,

I have a couple of questions--I've been reading through this thread and it's been really helpful, but I'm confused by 2 things.

1) When you take a break, how long do you take it for? A week, a month? And you suggested once every 3 cycles, which brings me to question....

2) I know it's helpful to follow one's cycle, but is it necessary? I have extremely irregular cycles, always have, and so I think that would be very difficult for me. I never really know what my cycle is doing.

(For reference, I'm 23, wear a smallish 32B, no kids, and I think I'm going to try this routine.)

[Wahaika]

Hello Quirkygirl,

1) You take a break for one full cycle - a month.

The minimum amount of time to do this is to break after 3 months. You never want to go more than a year without at least one break.

When - depends on how much growth you have had, if any. Sometimes you lose a little growth during a break. So, if you have gone 3 months and grew 3 inches, then losing 1/2 inch isn't so bad. But if you go 3 months and only grow 1/2 inch, then you might not want to break at 3 months. It is always a good idea to take a break before drastically altering a routine. But little adjustments are OK. It's a judgment call.

2) I would say that it is necessary. One reason is the amount of help available through this board. If you have an obvious pattern in your irregular cycles, then it can be addressed at the same time as BE. Some women's cycles straighten out while on BE.

Have you seen a doctor? Sometimes cycles that are all over the place are due to ovarian cysts.

If you could take your best guess, in general, of how your cycles go, for as far back as you can, that would be helpful. It would also be helpful to start tracking how it goes now.

Here are some things that I would be looking for:

* Irrregular and/or erratic lengths of cycles.

* Irregular length, color, or flow of menstruation.

* Any pain that is out of the ordinary any time of the month. Meaning menstrual cramps are expected, but not cramps that send you to the emergency room, for example.

* Any pains during the month, especially sharp ones.

* Midcycle spotting or bleeding.

If you have other problems, it would be best to find out what they are and address them now, especially if there was something serious. If you are just irregular and your doctor knows about it and has just accepted it, then OK. Otherwise, you don't want to make things worse by doing a routine that throws you farther off.

Hope this helps,

Wahaika