Men and PORN...

[fawnmarie]

I still think there is a HUGE difference between what you think and what you do.

I THINK about buying a BMW, but I don't, because it would be stupid and expensive and the expense would be detrimental to my family. I may WANT a BMW, and after some thought, realize they really aren't that great, or at least not for me. But that doesn't stop me from THINKING I may want one.

The ability to know the difference betweeen trivial desires and real needs is a mark of maturity. Even the most enlightened have trivial desires, because they're a part of being alive and having a body with instincts. The mature just don't let trivial desires run their life. And the enlightened don't let trivial desires ruin their mindset.

Now, if I came HOME with a BMW (like jre's mate did), that would be something entirely different.

However, expecting your spouse, BF, GF or other romantic partner not to EVER think sexually about another person is like expecting someone on a diet NEVER to think about chocolate cake. You expect them not to EAT chocolate cake, but expecting them not to even think about it is pretty juvenile, immature, insecure and completely and utterly pointless, and it does you more harm than them.

The reason your BF thinks about "girls" occasionally is because he is a man and their hormonally set up causes them to think about girls occaisonally. And the reason you said rarely, is because you are a woman, and your hormonal set up causes you to think about boys rarely.

"Confused" is mentally and emotionally female, so isn't really a good gauge of such things.

If you change a man's hormonal make up or mental attitude enough to cause them to think about girls "rarely", you no longer HAVE a man. You have something different. Gotta take the bad with the good.

They put up with our crazy nuts - PMS, "nesting" (you know, when you wake up a 6:00 AM on Sunday and insist they get up with you and go buy paint), jealousy, insecurity, changes in diet, having things "just so", inability to kill bugs, take out trash or change the oil in our cars.

I think the LEAST we can do is give them some slack in the porn department.

If it's keeping them from intimacy with you, it's a real problem that should be addressed with counseling.

If it's causing infidelity or dissatisfaction with the prime relationship, it's a problem and needs professional counseling. And BTW - oogling and porn are NOT a sign of dissatisfaction, unless it hinders or replaces the relationship.

However, if it's a little oogling at other girls, or a little XXX flick on the weekend or a couple of dirty pictures on the hard drive, I really wouldn't sweat it, or make them pay for it.

Fawn

Think about it.

[lilsx1]

If you think about it, too... the fact that he was honest enough to admit that he occassionally thought about them, shows that it isn't a problem and probably happens less than you might think. Maybe his "occasionally" is equivalent to your rarely... ok I JUST asked MY man "If I told you I went to the beach OCCASSIONALLY how often would you think that would mean, say, in one month?" Wanna know the answer? He said, "A couple times." !!!!! Even when I think occassionally I agree with him - once in awhile. Rarely to me is like maybe once or twice a year, if that... you just have to put it in to perspective. Take a look around you at the mall - I will bet you anything you think about other women more than he does... because it is your insecurity. He might think about it if someone attractive walks by because it is right in front of him, but then immediately forget about it as soon as she is out of sight and go back to thinking about nothing or cars or fishing or whatever it is that your man thinks about *lol*... just my two cents!

[yuna0z]

I agree with you fawnmarie and lilsx. Thanks for your input.

[yuna0z]

I guess men will always think about girls even in a relatonship. It's just human nature. Men will be men and we can't change that no matter how annoying it can be.

[confused]

Hi Ladies,

I just need to add , that I have always thought the way I do now and I have not done hormones until way later in life. I hope that answers some questions about some men that are not turned on by porn or other physical things. God Bless All and "LOL".

sincerely,

jre

[lilsx1]

You are right, they will - but so will women - I occassionally think about men when they are there and esp. if they are hot and flirty but that's all I think about - I don't think about BEING with them... BIG difference What matters is that the person you are with is treating you right and wants to be with YOU - looking or thinking doesn't mean wanting... or that they would choose that person over you

[fawnmarie]

My neighbors had their roof worked on yesterday. I was very appreciative as they seemed to have hired the best & burliest looking roofer in town.

I don't think this makes me a bad wife, or think any less of my husband.

I'm sure he's not anywhere as smart or funny or good in bed and he'd probably bore me to tears within a week, but he was nice to look at and absolutely no threat whatsover.


JRE - it's not just the hormones you are taking, but you said that you felt you should have been another gender. It's not just the hormones, but the brain structure. Transgendered people have brain structures that more closely resemble those of their desired gender. Which means your brain is more like a woman's brain (this has come out in recent brain imaging tests on transgendered people), and your opinion may not be representative of the majority of men's feelings.


Fawn

[confused]

Thank you Fawn for that information as I didn't realize that fact and it does make sense. I just can't help the way I think or am. I have tried so hard to turn from it and I'm just not strong enough and I don't want people to hate me for it.

thanks again

jre

[charlysays]

jre i think you are incredibly strong-if u weren't u wouldn't be here-there must be a lot of men and women in your situation who spend the whole of their lives being unhappy without doing something about it.

as for men and porn-i had to buy a ZOO magaxine for my boyfriend today-'toilet reading'-pah! it bugs me but as fawn says-he'sonly looking at the chocolate cake!!

[fawnmarie]

jre,

It's really fascinating stuff - you should read up on it, and maybe you'll be more comfortable knowing more about yourself.

I watched a documentary on transgender issues a couple of weeks ago, and it was fascinating. They were doing brains scans and finding other differences in the actual structures and how it (the brain) works differently in men and women. Transgendered people had brain structures and organizations that were more like the other gender (in your case more like a woman's brain).

You should read up on it - it's very interesting stuff - and you might have a couple of "aha!" moments there.

Fawn

[confused]

Hi Fawn,

Thank you for that insight and yes, I will look into it to be more informed on the subject. Something, I haven't shared with anyone else is the doctor before I was born told my parents I was going to be a girl. Is that freaky or what. Were they ever surprised!! Oh well, I've even spent 13 1/2 months in Viet Nam and got through it . Anyway enough about me. Thanks again for all the help you have given me.

Sincerely,

jre

[gizelle777]

a couple of things to throw out there -- I don't know the answers to these myself, but am wondering...

Isn't sex 99% in the mind? If so, then doesn't lusting after other people constitute at least some form of disloyalty?

And what if the only reason he isn't "eating the cake" is because he CAN'T? (Jessica Simpson is not that easy to get for the average guy) Are you confident that a guy who constantly engages in fantasy sex with some other woman wouldn't go for it if actually given the chance to GET some impossible piece of A?

Are guys really genetically, evolutionarily programmed to chase tail? Or is it that in our society they have given themselves excuses to behave in the most self-serving ways (See, one bull for twelve cows! Must be the same for me!). Are we not distinguished from animals by our capasity for higher reasoning and triumph over animal instincts? And if we ARE slaves to animal instinct then - What about penguins that mate for life? What about species where the female is the sexual aggressor (certain baboons)? What about the Queen Bee and her hoard of disposible male workers? ETC...

Thing is, men have dominated society's philosophy since hunter-gatherer times, through sheer physical aggression. Women fell from social equality with the agriculteral revolution when people began to stay put to grow food, herd animals. This meant that for the first time people accumulated more goods then simply what they could carry with them from place to place. So they wanted to leave their new material possensions and land to their offspring when they died. So it became necessary to control women's sexuality so that man could ensure that his stuff went to HIS kids, not some other guy's. Men have been advocating for their own sexual freedom, and women's sexual servitude ever since. Heck, the female orgasm was once little known, considered worthless, even perverted. Was that belief an indication that women were not evolutionarily "meant" to enjoy sex?

These double standards are reflected by the media, advertising, billboards, etc.. hundreds of times a day. We are bombarded with the message that women are still passive objects for the pleasure and convenience of men - the subjects, the real players in society. Of course it is accepted as "common knowledge" that men "spread their seed" and women "nest." This idea sells a lot of products.

By the way, contrary to how it might seem from my post, I still love men. I'm not angry with the whole gender, just with the stupid media. There are tons of great guys out there who don't cheat, it's just hard to find them sometimes because we women also suffer from the negative indoctrination about what makes a man a MAN.

Love to my sistas...

[naturalmama]

Everything we do starts in the mind. The Bible teaches that if a man looks at a woman to lust after her, he has committed adultery with her already. (Mt. 5:28) My understanding of this is that if a person engages in sexual thoughts about individuals that are not their spouse, eventually it could lead to physically acting on those thoughts and takes away from the pleasure, intimacy and emotional involvement that one should have towards their spouse. When people say "it just happened"(when they're unfaithful)...no it didn't...they've been thinking about it...maybe not with the specific person the infidelity occurred with, but they've been thinking sexually/emotionally about someone other than their spouse.

And for those saying that men are genetically made to think about women other than their spouse like this, true, men are more visually oriented;however, what about self-control? Just because some scantily clad woman walks by, that doesn't mean that he can't control where he looks or his thoughts. Don't be so quick to give a license for them to look or think about another woman in a sexual way.....saying "oh your a man, I know you can't help yourself"...please I don't buy it. We all have the ability to practice self-control and if your man cares about you, he's not going to put himself in situations that will threaten your relationship. This is what maturity is about....don't even "play near the fire to see how close you can get w/o getting burnt...eventually you will".

[fawnmarie]

"We all have the ability to practice self-control and if your man cares about you, he's not going to put himself in situations that will threaten your relationship. "

Exactly - that's why there is STILL a difference between what we think and what we do. There isn't any difference between a man's twinge at the sight of a beautiful woman and your temporary desire the punch the face of the salesgirl who screwed up your order.

The difference is that HE doesn't chase the woman and you don't punch the sales girl because you're thinking, civilized people.

God gave us instincts because he wanted us to survive. Then he gave us rational thought so we could be more worthy of heaven.

They are both gifts - and it's not within me to question their usefullness.

Fawn

[Tweety]

Fawn and naturalmama have good points. Most men are visually stimulated. It's what they do with their thoughts and temptations that matters. Not to say that constant stimulation doesn't feed it and make it worse...