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Post by Moderator on Nov 12, 2003 20:58:03 GMT -5
From: anita22179 Sent: 8/6/2003 3:39 AM
hi momi, well i have the exact same stats as you and i am a nurturer. i am 24 and 5'3. i have tried 3 mths each on grobust and SBS but they did nothing, only occasional tingles. then i joined bob's board, got a blood test done and found i was def. in oestrogen and prog. though i was oestrogen dominant. my androgen isnt high, but compared to 0est/ prog, its higher, thats why i have body hair too. low prog. has always given me heavy bleeding with bad PMS. well after that i have used BO 2400 mg for a mth in the end i got lumpy breasts prior to my AF, i talked to fawn abt it, she said they were due to excess oestrogen and will go away after my periods which they did.i dont know if that was a growth sign. she advised me to go on SP and pregnenolone and also to add prog, to my routine coz i am VERY low in it and it is also imp to down regulate my PMS and bleeding a bit, though it can slow down my results. now i am waiting for my SP and pregnenolone to arrive., i already have BO with me you grew well on HBA i guess it means your oestro levels arent quite as low as mine coz i got no results from SBS and grobust, 3 mths on each. perhaps the herbs in HBA were enough to bring up your oestro levels, i asked fawn if i would need to use oestradiol to bring up levels, but as we know she does not much advocate use of oestradiol. i am planning to use red clover for ym massages, can you tell me , with the recommended dosage of 1-2 dropperful 3 times a day, how long a 4 oz bottle will last? i am asking coz i am in india, if i order i'll order for at least 6 mths supply. and does topical SP cause shrinkage? thats what wen said,i was thinking of using that too, now i dont know whether to go for it!!! momi, i have a high protein diet, i have cheeze, egg, chicken, fish everything in my daily routine, do you still think i need to get protein shakes? gosh i am tired of importing more and more stuff! what a letter! you must be having awesome patience to read it all out thanks and lemme know what you think, anita
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Post by Moderator on Nov 12, 2003 20:58:44 GMT -5
From: Mominator5 Sent: 8/6/2003 10:18 AM
Hi Anita, Fawn may correct me on some of this, but here it goes! If you are starting on progesterone, you will definately need to counter with Red Clover since it blocks the progesterone receptors needed for success with BE. Progesterone is not a BE friending hormone! But it is a very important hormone for HEALTH. Will you be taking Red Clover Blossom capsules and using extract for batter? Or using it for both? I have Red Clover extract I used orally for about 1 week, from that amount I would say strictly orally would last a month. But using for both tincture and batter, less than a month obviously. I use the extract in my booby batter now! Not sure SP causes "shrinkage", it does however, tighten and make the breast firmer. At your age, you probably don't have the same "floppy" problem I had! But internally is a great. If SP used in batter causes shrinking, it's more than likely temporary. Well Anita, since you can't do meats...the eggs, cheese, fish are wonderful sources of protein. Here's a thought, if you don't start getting sensations, tingles, ya' know, within 6 weeks, then order the protein shakes. I understand importing can be such a pain, and it would prolly be cheaper to order all of this at once, if ordering from the same place saves on outrageous shipping. Hey...had a thought, Wen posted a less expensive way of shipping for international. Hmmm, I will ask her about it today, and e-mail to you! Or have her post it again! I hope I have answered all of your questions...if I missed a few (remember I am on fenugreek) then post back...I will answer! Post your whole planned routine, other's may have some ideas too! Bust of Luck! Momi'
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Post by Moderator on Nov 12, 2003 20:59:14 GMT -5
From: Mominator5 Sent: 8/6/2003 10:25 AM
Hi Anita, I didn't realize you were starting BO. You cannot take Red Clover internally...only topically! Sorry! I thought you were still on herbs! Sorry! Good thing I looked at other posts! *phew* Momi'
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Post by Moderator on Nov 12, 2003 20:59:59 GMT -5
From: Wenonae_ Sent: 8/6/2003 12:45 PM
Welcome A-board, CC!!! Well, we're not THAT good on this board to know exactly numerically what levels of progesterone and estrogene are in the system..we've just figured out that based on hormonal levels in system, we can tweek the NBE program to provide the best 'conditions' for breast growth. But, just looking at the trend you posted, in order to get a period, the progesterone level has to drop significantly. So, that last week when one takes 'dead' or no pills, when the week before progeseterone levels were higher, the body thinks "O, progesterone drop", and AF comes right on in...like clockwork. This is an excellent way to keep track of your luteal and follicular phases for cycling doses, if one should ever need it. Well, that's my two cents comment on this for today . Glad to see you're finally able to post! See you around ...and ...... HAPPY GROWIN'!
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Post by Moderator on Nov 12, 2003 21:00:27 GMT -5
From: Wenonae_ Sent: 8/6/2003 12:48 PM
o...and those massages...are during my trips to the 'loo. I can only manage heat about 2-3 times a week, those times when I'm sitting still long enough and when I'm not hanging out w. BF. That's just about as well anyway...too much heat...and boobies try to go into 'hiding' anyways.
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Post by Moderator on Nov 12, 2003 21:01:02 GMT -5
From: ChicagoCharky Sent: 8/7/2003 9:00 PM
Charlie -
Sorry for the delayed response (i'm only able to hang out here briefly every few days, unfortunately).
As far as "hi-progest." BCPs, mine (Loestrin) had 1mg progest. compound norethindrone acetate and .02 mg estrogen compound ethinyl estradiol (thus the name "lo-estrin").
I notice a huge difference from the previous higher-estrogen pills i took, which had .035 (like yours) and .03 mg estrogen compound, respectively. i had severe depression with the first, and slightly less severe depression w/ the second. With Loestrin, I have no mood problems whatsoever (except natural ones).
I've been significantly moodier since being on the BO, however, I'm better able to deal with it now, and also knowing how it's currently benefiting me BE-wise (and that this is temporary) helps my state of mind.
So I think in response to your question, your pill should be good (not too progest-heavy) for BE.
Hope that helps! Happy growin' CC
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Post by Moderator on Nov 12, 2003 21:01:38 GMT -5
From: ChicagoCharky Sent: 8/7/2003 9:23 PM
Momi-
Thanks for the info re not taking phyto-estros while on BO. The red clover I'm only using topically (w/ flax for massage), while SP berries I've been swallowing. I really think the SP berries have helped (thanks Wen!) since the last 10 days since I started taking them have coincided w/ about 0.5 inches of growth. One thing I'm certain is working is the massage w/ heat.
In any case, I think I'll continue the SP berries. I may take a break from the red clover/flax and just stick to dry massage for now.
A massage technique that I've kind of been doing, I found in a book called The Sexual Secrets of The White Tigress, about a secret society of female Chinese consorts that have been around for centuries. Among their breast-enlarging techniques, they massage both breasts in a circular motion (w/out covering the nipples) 48x inward, then 48x outward, then pull on the nipples (not too hard to make it painful, though). while doing the massage, you're supposed to have a faint smile on your face and think of yourself as young and beautiful. there's a lot of other advice/massage techniques in there, some of it way-way-out-there for westerners. however, there seems to be some truth in there too, if you're open to it.
okay, happy growin! cc
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Post by Moderator on Nov 12, 2003 21:02:00 GMT -5
From: Mominator5 Sent: 8/8/2003 9:46 AM
Hi CC, I would not recommend stopping the SP. SP is very BE friendly, great for blocking androgens, which no a NOT BE friend. Why would discontinue the massages with Red Clover? Red Clover is proving to be a very powerful BE herb. It provides high phyto-estrogen properties and block progesterone receptors in the breast. You are on a BCP, so you are pumping more progesterone than usual and all the time! I would recommend you definitely keep it in your Boobie Batter routine! Your massaging techniques sounds interesting, I incorporated a little bit of it into my own massage. Thanks for the tip(pardon the pun) You may want to look at Discoveries-Links there are a few other demonstrations of massages. I've incorporated your's and the other two! Again CC if ain't broke don't fix it! You have some awesome growth going there, just keep plugging along, you will be at your goal in no time. Bust of Luck, keep us "abreast" of any further "developments"! Momi'
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Post by Moderator on Nov 12, 2003 21:02:21 GMT -5
From: Wenonae_ Sent: 8/8/2003 12:33 PM
CC, Say, I'd DEFINITELY recommend to keep using the RC extract, etc. boobie batter...I've been using one that also includes that, hops, and fenugreek, and I'd swear, my boobies feel warm all the day long. Must mean something's going on, rite? We'll see in about a month here.... If you're coming along, I second what Momi's saying...don't 'fix' it. Great going so far..and keep up your 'developments'
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Post by Moderator on Nov 12, 2003 21:02:42 GMT -5
From: ChicagoCharky Sent: 8/9/2003 11:08 AM
Thanks Wen & Momi!
I'm definitely staying on the SP berries, for sure. I was just thinking of not overdoing it w/ the phyto estros w/ the red clover/flax massage. That's something I only started a few days ago, so maybe I should've waited a little before adding something new, since i'd only started SP berries about 10 days ago, and at the same time stopped my hi-progest. BCP pill completely. I'm afraid of overloading the receptors, since it seems what I'd been doing up until a few days ago had already been working (afraid to over-"fix it").
however, i do like the idea of adding hops to the massage, since i don't know how else i'd get the prolactin (i'm not much of a beer drinker, mostly because of the bloating it causes). Wen, where from and in what form do you get your hops?
Thanks gals. And Wen, thanks again for rescuing me and inviting me to the BEBoard!!
keep growin' CC
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Post by Moderator on Nov 12, 2003 21:03:00 GMT -5
From: Wenonae_ Sent: 8/9/2003 11:17 AM You're very welcome, CC For immediacy, check your local health food store to give it a test run. If you'd like to stock up and can wait 1-2 weeks, www.vitacost.com sells them for warehouse pricing, but of course you pay S&H, which is always $5...still not bad. Happy Growin'!
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Post by Moderator on Nov 12, 2003 21:03:24 GMT -5
From: MizzCharlie Sent: 8/9/2003 1:19 PM
Isn't it possible to take Kava Kava root to up your prolactin levels? That's what I thought and it's the reason that I take (450mg) of Kava Kava root every night. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Charlie.
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Post by Moderator on Nov 12, 2003 21:04:02 GMT -5
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Post by Moderator on Nov 12, 2003 21:04:28 GMT -5
From: MizzCharlie Sent: 8/9/2003 4:21 PM Dear Wen, Woah there is so much info on that thread!! Thank you so much for bringing it to my attention . Guess I AM doing the right thing with the Kava Kava. It also re-sparked my interest in cycling my BO. It just makes sense to up your estrogen levels if your body is naturally upping your progesterone. But I read somewhere on this board that it might not be a good idea whilst being on BCP? Do you know anything about that? Hope you're having a nice Saturday, MzC (I like this abbreviation you came up with!)
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Post by Moderator on Nov 12, 2003 21:04:49 GMT -5
From: Mominator5 Sent: 8/9/2003 4:37 PM
Hi Charlie, In my opinion the goal is to block the progesterone. Not offset it with estrogen Remember excess estrogen, clogs the liver, and could cause a dump on tummy, thighs, butt, and maybe boobs! Does this make sense to you! The trick with BO is finding the progesterone blocker since Red Clover cannot be used! Wild Yam comes to mind, but also a phyto, so should not be used with BO. Fawn...any ideas to block progesterone for BO users on BCP? Great Questions Charlie, Momi'
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