Creation and Distribution-Mominator-AIMOO

[mominator]

From: Mominator5 (Original Message) Sent: 6/4/2003 9:18 PM

Hi Everyone,
There are few of us who have a come up with a theory based on my growth experience and a post from Fudge set off this theory.

#1. On days 1-14 your body is distributing the newly created breast tissue with building estrogen levels
#2. On days 15-28 your body is creating breast tissue when estrogen is high, but the progesterone is also high and allowing the body to do it's job.

If this theory is correct, and you have normal cycles (meaning monthly) then cycling would probably not be necessary, with exception to someone who only has menstration due to BCP or perimenopausal. The reason this was concluded is: if the body produces extra estrogen, then it gets distributed anywhere it wants too, not necessarily your breasts. It could hit the thighs, butt, tummy. So adding phyto-estrogens or BO, you are mimicking extra estrogen allowing for breast growth.

The Chat Group,
Momi', Gigi, & Wenonae

[Moderator]

From: MizzCharlie Sent: 6/4/2003 8:26 PM

So if one was on BCP, how would one go about cycling?

Zen.

[Moderator]

From: Mominator5 Sent: 6/4/2003 8:37 PM

Hi Zen,
If you are on a BCP that causes you not have have a monthly cycle, then the opinion is that upping estrogen dosages might be in order. Does that help your question, not all BCP, we discussed Depo shots, causing menstration every 3 mos.

Momi'

[Moderator]

From: Mansi Sent: 6/4/2003 9:04 PM

So Momi, based on this theory, do we need to make any changes in our current regime?
ANd you mean to say that I don't need cycling with progestrone also??
Mansi

[Moderator]

Hi Mansi,
Yeah, that's it. Just keep your routine as you usually do and don't add anything for at least 1 cycle. I would say no progesterone either, your body is naturally created it in days 15-28.

Momi'

[Moderator]

From: basil Sent: 6/5/2003 6:42 AM

Can you elaborate on this theory and its basis? What exactly do you mean by "cycling would probably not be necessary"? How does this theory change how routines should be established? Sorry for all the questions, just curious. Sounds interesting.

Basil

[Moderator]

From: dishrag Sent: 6/5/2003 8:48 AM

I thought I was getting firmer at the beginning of this cycle, now in mid cycle, I feel I'm losing it. I expect some swelling next week when I'm pms ing. Is this consistant with what you are saying? I have to wait til next cycle for new growth? Its like a rollar coaster...a very small rollar coaster...up and down all month. thanks for your revelation. dish

[Moderator]

From: Venus0897 Sent: 6/5/2003 10:21 AM
Hi Momi,

Are you talking about just cycling with progesterone? Or cycling (taking breaks) from BE to jump start growth again for those who seem to have stalled a bit? Sorry, I'm a little confused and just want to make sure I understand this right.

Venus

[Moderator]

Hi Basil and All,
Let me explain how this discussion and eventual theory started. Gigi questioned Fawn on cycling herbs, much the same as BO. Instead of talking progesterone, her thought was to increase herbs, during the cycle to allow more estrogen. The following are the two links for more background:

groups.msn.com/BEBoard/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=4271&LastModified=4675423149315032006

groups.msn.com/BEBoard/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=5568&LastModified=4675424442220479001

I have posted many times that my biggest growth is always during my period. Fudge posted that her growth tends to be towards the end of her cycle. Which got me thinking that according to Waihaika's survey, estrogen is dominant days 1-14, progesterone days 15-28, so what if breast tissue is being created days 1-14 but the body is so full of estrogen, that's all it can do is create the tissue, when the estrogen level starts depleting and progesterone is at it's highest point, is when the body allows the newly created tissue to be distributed. So...cycling would probably not be a good idea for most BE users, since estrogen will dump excess into your thighs, tummy, butt. It may not and probably would not dump into your breasts. Remember it's a theory, I guess we all have to kind of journal when our growth is...to see if the theory is proven. But accurate measurments for growth, need to be taken after menstration and when the water has left. (we all know what a sad day that can be)

I feel this theory is important to those struggling with BE, so they know when growth can appear. The best thing for all BE users is to take your herbs and forget about it...yeah...right...like that is going to happen. So the more information we have about our bodies the better for all to share.

Me personally get sensations during the days 5-14, but usually no or little growth. Those sensations do mean something, so where is the growth, and why do I grow when I get my period? So...there's the story on the theory and how it was deriven.

Please remember it is just a theory, fortunately when this discussion came up there were a little of all types of BE users involved with the discussion, 1 regular cycle, 1 perimenopausal, and 1 BO. So we felt pretty confident in posting this thread. Not to be held for BE gospel, but a very interesting theory none the same. (Where's Fawn ) She be back, get better soon Fawn!

Momi'

[Moderator]

From: Nanettedn Sent: 6/5/2003 11:46 AM
Hi Mominator,

You have mentioned on several posts how you took a 2 week break (suggested by HBA) when your growth had stalled. And you had 'growth signs' durnig this break. How does that fit into your theory? What part of your cycle was the break? To my way of thinking that is a 'type' of cycling.

Just so you know I am not calling your theory into question, just looking for more info. Thanks.
Nanette


Momi'

[Moderator]

From: Mominator5 Sent: 6/5/2003 1:46 PM
Hi Nanette
Oh...you been payin' attention! You are correct, I took a 2 week break cuz I wasn't getting any sensations whatsoever. It was recommended by HBA, and if I had known then what I know now, I could have just upped the fenugreek, cuz obviously my body was getting used to the mg's I was ingesting. A person could try upping their intake for the rest of their BE days or let their body settle, come off the herbs completely for a 2 week period. Didn't pay attention to the time of my cycle when I took the break. I could look it up. (lazy...what can I say) I was going to try both methods to get out of my slump. I started this in September 2002, so I would look good in a swim suit! Well...haven't quite met that goal, since they don't sell MEDIUM IN HALF suits. So I choose to up the fenugreek by switching to a brand that has more, which Greenbush does. Me under a time limit, didn't want to take the 2 weeks off.

So it does fit into the theory, the choice is not to up the herbs temporarily, as in cycling. I chose to up my herbs until I meet my goal. Cycling is temporarily changing dosages to different times of the month.

Don't worry about calling the theory into questions, that's why I posted it. I want imput and questions, and see if this theory sticks. That's why it's a theory to be proven one way or the other. Thanks for askin' I appreciate it!

Momi'

[Moderator]

From: Mominator5 Sent: 6/5/2003 9:32 PM

Hi Dish,
Sorry, I didn't get back to you. Yes what you are saying is in accordance with this theory, you would get firmer during the begining of your cycle, because the newly created tissue is being distributed and chances are it's there to stay. The reason you feel like you are losing your firmness is more than likely due to water retention and that nasty Auntie Flow, which if this theory proves right, everyone will be lookin' forward to her monthly visit, to see what she brings! This theory is showing Auntie giveth in the way of water, taketh away, then gives some back!

Is this making sense to you? Now does the theory seem to be match your BE reactions? I am kinda' thinkin' the only way to prove or disprove would be for members to journal their next few cycles. I will be doing this, and hopefully others will too.

Momi'

[Moderator]

From: Nanettedn Sent: 6/5/2003 11:18 PM

Okay Momi, thanks for the info. Glad you didn't feel offended.
Nanette

[Moderator]

From: fawnmarie42 Sent: 6/6/2003 8:20 AM
Okay - nobody smack me:

Here's my take on the whole thing. Its in several parts - here's part one:

Estrogen is almost ALWAYS dominant - though progesterone is produced around day 14 and almost reaches the levels of estrogen around day 21 and both sink towards day 28. It's the final drop that starts your period.

Here's the chart:



Estrogen acts upon breast tissue (for our purposes) - in several ways. The first of which is fitting into the receptors in the glandular tissue and increasing the replication of glandular tissue cells - this, theoretically, increases glandular firmness and maybe size. It may also, theoretically, cause a regrowth of involuted glandular tissue - it must if women over 30 or so need to nurse a baby.

The second way it acts is fitting the estrogen receptors in the fat cells - which changes the composition of the fat cells, causing them to release less fat (lipids) into the bloodstream to be used for fuel, causing them to "fill to capacity", which in turn causes replication so more fat can be stored in new cells.

The third way that estrogen acts is to increase the amount of enzyme (aromatase) that converts testosterone to estrogen (if temps are adequate).

The fourth way estrogen works is to increase the amount of prolactin being produced by the pituitary gland. Prolactin seems to work synergistically with estrogen in breast tissue - it seems to be the one factor that determines whether estrogen is distributed to breast tissue or other tissue.

End of Part One...

Fawn

[Moderator]

From: Mominator5 Sent: 6/6/2003 8:40 AM
WELCOME BACK FAWN! I was hopin you would come back help with the theory to prove or disprove it.

We wouldn't slap you! (hard) We want opinions, thoughts, arguments(constructive), that's what a theory is all about...isn't it?

From what I read of Part 1, it isn't dissuauding the theory. Please remember, this was theory was created by someone on fenugreek, and on laymen terms. I am pretty sure we all understand the estrogen is dominant at all times, or we would look like men! I just put it in simple terms for understanding, so thank you for making that CLEARer.

Great to have you back, hope you feel better! And we will try not to burn you out!

Momi'