Signs of Hormones-Momi'-MSN

[mominator]

From: Mominator5 (Original Message) Sent: 8/24/2003 9:10 AM
Too Much Estrogen? Too Little?

ABUNDANCE OF ESTROGEN

* Water Retention
* Fatigue
* Breast Swelling
* Fibrocystic Breasts
* PMS-like symptoms
* Loss of sex drive
* Uterine Fibroids
* Craving for Sweets
* Weight Gain

LACK OF ESTROGEN

* Hot flashes
* shortness of breath
* night sweats
* sleep disorders
* vaginal shrinkage
* painful intercourse
* vaginal dryness
* dry skin
* anxiety
* mood swings
* headache
* depression
* Memory Loss
* Heart palpitaions
* yeast infections
* inability to reach orgasm

ABUNDANCE OF PROGESTERONE

* Depression
* Somnolence

LACK OF PROGESTERONE

* Headache
* Hot flashes
* Low Libido
* Anxiety Night Sweats
* Swollen Breasts Painful breast
* Sleep Disorder
* Shortness of breath
* Moodiness
* vaginal shrinkage
* Fuzzy thinking
* Painful intercourse
* Depression
* vaginal Dryness
* Food Cravings
* Dry skin
* Anxiety
* irritability
* Insomnia
* Mood swing
* Memory Loss
* Weight gain
* Heart Palpitations
* Bloating
* Yeast Infections
* Inability to concentrate
* Inability to reach orgasm
* Painful joints
* Asthma

[Moderator]

From: Mominator5 Sent: 8/24/2003 11:25 AM
www.johnleemd.net/forms/hb_test.html#answers

For reference!
Momi'

[Moderator]

From: kathio8477 Sent: 8/24/2003 6:49 PM
Hi,
As I said before Idon't have any of these problems on any of the lists. What does that mean that I am balnced or what?

[Moderator]

From: Wenonae_ Sent: 8/24/2003 7:05 PM

Kathio,

NONE of these u have symptoms of...u never swell or bloat during ur period...u have absolutely no hair on your body, you have an AWESOME sex drive, etc.

Wow...then yes, you're EXTREMELY BALANCED.

Your best bet is to just start a basic regime based on Fawn's recommendations for herbal NBE on her site...that's moderate amounts of everything: RC blossoms and SP berries. Go to breast enlargment section.

www.botanicalbeautylab.com

Good luck!

[Moderator]

From: Mominator5 Sent: 8/24/2003 7:22 PM

Hi KathiO
Have you gone through menopause? I guess that's the big question here. If so do you do any HRT, or you don't need too. I guess if you have been through menopause and you are not on HRT's right now. Chances are your body accepts your hormonal condition....not sure if hormones are present after menopause! I am just assuming here...I would really like to know an answer that question myself! I better leave this one to Fawn...but the point I am trying to make is...YES it sounds like you are in balance! So....you would prolly need blockers if still producing hormones....like....SP for androgens....Red Clover for progesterone...and of course Fenugreek for estrogen, which IS needed to grow!

I think I answered a few questions? (ouch...the fenugreek fog)
Momi'

[Moderator]

From: moomoomama Sent: 8/25/2003 7:14 AM

mega confusion moomoomama! anxiety, insomnia and depression fall into 3 categories! yet i took the hormone test and came out estrogen dominant which i realize doesnt mean its in abundance. yet i do have those 3 symptoms as well as an unpredictable sex drive(i mean like wanting it in mid afternoon when i know i cant!) i am not a hairy person but i do tend to break out and my breasts are sore frequently. i dont know where i stand. anyone else in a similar boat? i also dont tend to retain alot of water and really dont have much of a weight problem. need a little help thankyou all please!

[Moderator]

From: fawnmarie42 Sent: 8/25/2003 9:09 AM

Kathio -

Don't feel weird - I don't have any of them either. When I am stuffing my gullet full of phytos, I have maybe one or two of the excess estrogen symptoms (but that is sort of the whole point, isn't it?) But other than that, neither do I.

(Momi - you left out the cortisol series.)


Fawn

[Moderator]

From: fawnmarie42 Sent: 8/25/2003 9:18 AM
One more thing - Blood sugar problems need to be taken into account for a lot of these. One of the reasons I don't put a WHOLE ton of faith into this survey - if you really want to know, you should get the saliva testing, but I wouldn't base medication on this test, though basing BE on it is safe enough, after discounting for blood sugar disorders.

Most people in the civilized world eat so much unnatural crap that a ridiculously high percentage (especially women who lose thyroid efficiency very easily because of higher estrogen levels) of them have hyperinsulism and are prediabetic. Insulin function and thyroid function tend to work hand in hand, and when one is not functioning properly, the other doesn't either.

Some of the symptoms of hyperinsulism/thyroid disfunction are

Water retention
fatigue (especially after meals)
PMS- like symptoms (moodiness)
Craving for sweets
Weight gain
Anxiety
Mood Swings
Dry Skin
Heart palpitations
Headache
Depression
Sleep Disorder
Memory Loss
Yeast Infections
Fuzzy Thinking


So - make sure you address blood sugar issues before working a program around this list of symptoms. If you get these symptoms about 1/2 hour to an hour after eating, then they are more likely do to hypoglycemia than sex hormones.


Fawn

[Moderator]

From: Mominator5 Sent: 8/25/2003 9:39 AM
Thank you Fawn!

I agree with that these "quizzes" "surveys" test are not meant to be accurate, they are not meant for SELF DIAGNOSES. Nor should they be used for that intent. That would be out and out dangerous!

They are however, a good indicator for those struggling with BE, to help pinpoint and tweak their routine! That is the reason this and the Dr. Lee test were posted. Just for help whether you are hormonally balanced, do you need extra SP for androgen excess, damiana for progesterone blockage.

Please EVERYONE use these with caution...they are NOT diagnoses tools!

Bust of Luck to EVERYBODY!
Momi'

[Moderator]

From: kathio8477 Sent: 8/25/2003 10:10 AM
I don't ever bloat or swell that I know of, I do shave my legs every day, and my sex drive I guess is as good as it always was and I think is pretty normal. I never really experienced any of the problems with menopause. I just quit having my period. It just stopped about a year ago and I sure don't miss it.
All of this is beginning to make a little sense. When I used to run everyday and go on a low fat diet I looked really flat chested. I was runner for many years and then after an injury had to quit.. When I went on modified Atkins the weight dropped off fast and I never did lose the weight in my breasts like I did before.

[Moderator]

From: Gïna Sent: 8/25/2003 10:23 AM
Fawn, Speaking of saliva testing, I thought I'd post my results here. I orginally found myself to be estrogen dominent according the Dr. Lee's quiz. That was what I determined almost a year ago when I read his book. Estrogen dominent wasn't to mean high in estrogen, only high in relation to progesterone. I had no symptoms of anything other than that which lead me to start using progesterone at the rate of 40mg on days 12 - 24. My symptoms went away immediately. Unfortunately I never did saliva testing prior to starting progesterone. I did follow the directions when doing my saliva testing and made sure it had been well over 12 hours since the last dose of progesterone when I did my only saliva test. Last pregnenolone and DHEA supplement was on 11/30/02 - 4 days prior to test. I'm interested in your impressions of my test. And remember I've since stopped the progesterone since the month of May.

Test date 12/3/02 - First day of last period 11/13/02 (day 20 of cycle)
Ph levels 6.3

Test Client Value Normal Range
Progesterone 1890.5 100-600 pg/ml
Estradiol 60.5 .5-25 pg/ml
Testosterone 308.1 5-70 pg/ml
Cortisol (AM) 13.8 1..5-11 ng/ml
DHEA-S 2520 200-2500 pg/ml

I found it odd how high all my levels of everything were. With the strangest reading being my testosterone when I have no real libido. Although it could explain the "manly" chest.
Gina

[Moderator]

From: fawnmarie42 Sent: 8/25/2003 10:50 AM
Mom,

I'm not trying to discount the validity of the test, especially for the use of BE. I just want everyone to be aware that there are other reasons besides sex hormone imbalance for some of these symptoms, and would hate to see someone dumping something they don't need into their system when the problem lies elsewhere. Or, not getting enough and wondering why their program isn't working.

A lot of the progesterone deficiency symptoms are similar to those of hypoglycemia, and I would hate to see anyone thinking they have the progesterone thing under control, when what they need to do is eat different.

Also - I do think the cortisol info needs to be included, since glutocorticoids are needed for fat storage in breast tissue.

Gina, Will respond to your question shortly.


Fawn

[Moderator]

From: fawnmarie42 Sent: 8/25/2003 11:05 AM
Gina,

Okay - from what I understand, you performed the saliva test 12 hours after using progesterone and 4 days after using pregnenolone and DHEA? And received high levels across the board?

Well, Day 20 is about when your natural and unsupplemented levels of progesterone and estrogen are the highest anyway (both progest & estrogen peak around day 21, lack of ovulation (which is relatively common) can cause an extremely high level of unopposed estrogen, leading to PMS). Add to the fact that progesterone stays in the body for about 2-3 days, and pregnenolone for about a week, this could cause unnaturally elevated levels of all the hormones. The high test results probably due to the DHEA (which you probably didn't need, anyway, if taking pregnenolone).

I think the levels are unnaturally high because they are supplemented levels on top of naturally high cyclic levels. As far as the manly chest, that's probably more of a combination of a broad chest and shoulder structure (I'm convinced your a communicator type), genetics, and more normal levels of estrogen during puberty.

Were you to get these tests done either before supplementing this hormones, or at least two weeks after stopping, I would consider them more reliable.

Libido is too subjective as an indicator of certain hormone levels, though obvious and sudden changes in libido can be (suddenly dead, suddenly stronger) a flag for hormonal changes if the environment is the same. In general, libido is too tied up in attitude, mood and quality of relationship to be a diagnostic tool for existing conditions.

Fawn

[Moderator]

From: Mominator5 Sent: 8/25/2003 12:05 PM
AGREED Fawn!
I was just sending out the same message you were. This is NOT a self diagnosis, just a good way to know where problem area's are for BE. And 100% agree that we do NOT want anyone just dumping herbs into their systems, just cuz it worked for someone else. This is to be used as another source, if you accuracy...to what Gina did, get the saliva test done. Can be found on many internet sites. Relatively in expensive, think around $75.00 (don't quote me). But is much more accurate than these quizzes.

THANK YOU FAWN!

Hugs,
Momi'

[Moderator]

From: Gïna Sent: 8/25/2003 12:32 PM
Fawn, I think I remember reading somewhere although I can't remember where, that the half life of preg and dhea was only 12-24 hours so I hoped they would have been well out of my system. The saliva test instructions stated that only 12 hours was required since last dose before testing so mine was about 15 hours. I pretty much suspected that info was all wrong after getting my results back. I just wished with those levels that something would have happened BEwise. What I really meant by a "manly" chest was that there isn't a whole lot of breast meat on it. I'm rather narrow shouldered and small around the ribcage. 29 inches to be exact. That's small in relation to my 5'8"+ height is what I mean. I even wonder if what I perceived to be low progesterone levels was more due to blood sugar fluctuations like you have suggested could mimic the same symptoms. I definitely was eating differently during that time. I can say my results of the Lee test would be less obvious as being anything at all at this point - other than my little feeling screwed up last month. I suspect that just might have been a little bit herbally induced as opposed to anything nutritional.

Momi, for the full panel of tests I had done it was just over $100 if I remember correctly. That was because of the few additional add ons such as cortisol and dhea. I'd hate to pay that again for a non-supplemented test level result. It would be nice to know though. It was a pain in the neck working up saliva that early in the morning. It's easy to spit until the pressure is on.
Gina