Sweetpea's Routine

[sweetpea]

Stats:
37 yrs old
110 lb
5' 3"
Lower bust: 30 1/2
Bust: 31 3/4"
Breastfed 3 kids a total of 4 1/2 years. Started as a 34B, now 34A, maybe even 34AA
Exercise 3-4 times a week for 45-60 minutes including weight training and cardio


Routine:

Started Wonderup on 12/19/10
2 pills 3x a day and massage with WU creme 2x a day.
Noticed WU creme doesn't have much for herbs, so bought Naturday cream, and started massage 2x a day mixing the two creams. I follow this with a couple minutes of heat from the blow dryer.

Also take:
MSM 1,000 mg 2x a day
Biotin 5,000 mcg a day (this is for hair loss)
fish oil 2,000 mg a day
vitamin D 2,000 IU a day
Occasionally take a muti-vit

I was taking 2,000 mg flax oil until the Naturalpath told me not to because it increases inflammation in the body, and the omega-3 fatty acids aren't readily available to the body like those in fish oil.

The naturalpath wants me to take chasteberry for PMS and because my cycle is short - usually 23-35 days. Also told me to take valerian root for sleep and ashwagandha to help with stress. Will any of these hinder the BE process?

I haven't had any signs of growth yet. I was considering purchasing fenugreek and adding it to the routine.
I discovered this forum after I purchased the Wonderup, so probably would have gone with Greenbush herbs if I had found this first.


Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Wahaika]

Hello Sweetpea,

Looks pretty good so far.

Take the following as my opinion on what should be done for NBE. Any reason that you are seeing a naturalpath should be weighed and considered with great care. There are many ways to naturally address certain issues. Perhaps some are changeable to be compatible with NBE and the advice of your naturalpath. Health comes first over NBE every time. Again, sometimes when there is a conflict, something different is just as good but will be compatible with NBE.

The first observations that I would make is regarding what your naturalpath has you taking and their compatibility with NBE.

* Flax seed oil is very good for inflammation in the body. True, fish oil is more bio absorbable than flax seed oil but a) not so much as to have one stop using flax seed oil, and b) fish oil will lower the success of NBE. I am a great proponent of fish oil over flax seed oil for those reasons (except for the inflamation issue) but for NBE, you need to use flax seed oil and discontinue fish oil.

* Vitex, while EXCELLENT for perimenopause and menopause issues, will absolutely kill any hope for success with NBE for almost all women. For PMS, as a part of an NBE regimin, you might try 1000mg of borage oil before bedtime every night. There are other things to do as well.

* 23 days is short for a cycle, but 35 days is definitely long. Are cycles different lengths every month? Do you have a record for the past year what they have been? Are you experiencing a long period of menstruation also? Are you experiencing mid cycle bleeding/spotting? Do you have migrane headaches? How are your energy levels?

* Valerian root may be good for NBE. I would suggest using GABA instead and adding valerian root after that, if needed. Some people use GABA and melatonin together. It would be helpful to have a list of things you are seeing your naturalpath about and what he has directed you to do. Are there issues other than what you have listed here? Are you experiencing low energy levels, hair loss, brittle nails, dry stools, depression, or foggy thinking?

Biotin is good, but you may also need B12 in the form of a B complex, kelp, and/or L-Tyrosine depending on your diet. What are your dietary habits regarding how often you eat, intake of dark leafy greens, meats/protein, oils and fats, and carbohydrates - especially high glycemic carbs?

What is your height and weight? What multi are you taking?

Sorry for some of the nosey questions, but the answers will help in making more observations on your routine.

Wahaika

[sweetpea]

Wahaika,

My cycle is 23-25 days. The 35 days was a typo. It will last 6-7 days rather than 5 days. I have 2 days of irritability before the cycle starts. No mid-cycle bleeding.

I went to see the naturalpath for hair loss and headaches. I've been losing hair over the past year, probably related to stress. I have a long history of migraines. They only happen very rarely now, mostly they are pressure headaches now. The headaches seem better since I started Wonderup. I have no other health issues. I asked the naturalpath about NBE, but she said it doesn't work and discouraged me from trying it.

I am 110 lb, 5'3". I eat 3 meals a day plus snacks. I eat a well-balanced diet, but think I'm heavy on the carbs, and maybe a little low on protein. I eat meat every day and 24 oz milk every day, but still come up short. I use canola oil, olive oil and butter. Not much for dark leafy greens. I take Kirkland multi-vits - the mature one without iron because the iron upsets my stomache.

Do you think I should start taking 3 WU pills 3 times a day instead of 2 pills since I'm not having any signs of growth? I have a 3 month supply of WU. My plan was to finish that, and if no growth, take a month off and then start with Greenbush herbs similar to Pammy's routine using the ramp up method.

Thanks for your help!

[Wahaika]

Hello Sweetpea,

For hair loss, it depends on where you are losing hair (entire head or just in the front?) I think that a program like Pammy's or the one in Precision Greenbush would be good. Saw palmetto would address the hair loss in the front, and there are other things that can be done as well one thing would be to try Nature's Way Kelp 660mg once per day as the bottle indicates, which is for a slow thyroid. Fennel tea is another herb that is good for thyroid support. There are other things as well.

For headaches, it depends on why you are having them. Stress headaches can be a real problem. If the headaches seem better after starting Wonderup, then the kelp content may be why - again a slow thyroid might be contributing to this.

Your naturalpath is probably thinking about all of the kitchen sink capsules out there that do not have enough of any one thing to really make a difference. On that we would agree. But on NBE as I have seen it with individual herbs adjusted differently for each woman and their differing hormonal and physiological characteristics, is a different ball game altogether. I have been considering a double blind placebo controlled study for a few years, and Greenbush showed and interest in it. But I cannot see asking women to be in the control group. If not enough women are in the study, let alone the control group, the results could be statistically insignificant. But even a study like that would have to be carefully controlled with many women showing the same physical, hormonal, and behavioral characteristics in order for it to be of any use. There are simply not enough women on these boards to pull something like that off. As far as your naturalpath goes, I definitely see where she is coming from. But if she gained a cup size herself I'll bet it would change her mind, academically speaking - not suggesting we do that. But I will say that one lady I know of, whose grandmother was a naturalpath (as memory serves) created a program for her granddaughter and she went from completely flat to C cup in a year or two. This took place at the age of about 22 or 23 for the granddaughter. So you see, naturalpaths do disagree on some things.

Anyway, Pammy's Routine using the ramp up method, with some other additions (similar to Wonderup, by the way but in larger quantities) would be great for you to do. The month to take off, if you're going to take one off is this month. I would say stop now, do a liver cleanse, start your multivitamin and begin your routine on your next cycle day 1. And if you're low on protein and low on dark leafy greens, now is the time to change that. Try some steak and salad, or chicken and salad. Getting those foods may also help your migranes because of the protein content. The Arachidonic Acid will help the NBE process.

I'll take a look at the Kirkland multi-vits and get back to you on that.

>>"Do you think I should start taking 3 WU pills 3 times a day instead of 2 pills since I'm not having any signs of growth? I have a 3 month supply of WU."

There's no reason that you couldn't ramp up wonderup. But I would save that for something to try after mid summer if the herbs were not working well enough for you. But if you want to try the wonderup route, go ahead. I think Wonderup is about the only good canned recipe out there, and ramping it up to dosages that work for you makes all the sense in the world. What are you doing topically?

Wahaika

[sweetpea]

My hair loss is all over. I don't think I have a slow thyroid problem. I've had it checked twice in the last two years and it's been within normal, but bordering on hyperthyroidism.

Topically, I've been using WU cream and Naturday cream together, massaging twice a day using methods I found on this board. I'm a little concerned about the kava kava and black cohosh in the Naturday cream though. What do you think about using aloe vera mixed with fenugreek extract and maybe borage oil? I'm alos interested in PM cream. I read that you don't recommend St. Herb anymore. Is this still true or is there another brand you know of that is good?

I'm a little confused as to why a person would take flax oil and EPO and massage with borage oil. These oils all contain ALA and GLA, right? So it seems like overkill to use all three. Can you explain why all three are so helpful to NBE?

Thanks for answering all my questions. You are extremely helpful.

[Wahaika]

I'm not a fan of kava kava, and I am definitely not a fan of black cohosh. I recommend discontinuing the Naturday cream. Aloe vera mixed with fenugreek extract would be excellent. Adding Borage oil would be good, but a better thing to do would be to do it in layers. Massage in some fenugreek extract, then when it is absorbed well enough, massage in borage oil until it is absorbed well enough then add heat. Aloe vera is good perhaps as a third layer, but not required if you are using an oil. Try a drop or two of DMSO.

I have found that there is more than one type of polysorbate 80, one of which appears to be OK for topical use only, but I don't know which one St Herb uses and I have not written and asked them yet. I'll look up both types and ask them which they use.

Flaxseed oil is really more used for its omega-3 content. Internally, EPO three times per day is better than borage oil once per day. I think it is unnecessary to use both internally, but one could use both if they wanted to get a lot of GLA. Overkill if you ask me. But the best thing is EPO three times per day. Some women have high or borderline high androgens and EPO makes it worse. Borage does not have this effect and makes a good substitute. Borage oil has other benefits as well, addressing PMS being one of them.

Here is an older thread of interest:
beboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1051

[sweetpea]

Well, I started feeling some tingling and really thought growth was happening, then I got two migraine headaches within a week. I used to get them when I was young but haven't had one for years, which makes me think it's the extra estrogen in my body that's the cause.

I've been taking Wonderup - 3 pills 3 times a day, plus drinking 20 ounces fenugreek/fennel tea a day. Also taking EPO 1000 mg 3 times a day, flaxseed oil 1,000 mg 3 times a day, and using topicals - fenugreek and fennel extract, DMSO, and EPO twice a day.

Has anyone else had this problem, and is there anything that can be done to prevent it. I just spent a bunch of money on Greenbush kit #2, so would be very disappointed if I'm unable to use the herbs.

[Wahaika]

You may be getting "fenugreek headaches" that are caused by low blood sugar. Short term: try something sugary when you feel a headache coming on. If it is gone quickly then this is the cause. Long term: Raise the daily carbs in your diet. Keep some hard candy nearby in case of "fenugreek headaches."