Zukoizon's Newbie Routine Suggestions Please

[zukoizon]

Hello everyone!
Stats:
Age 23 Height 5'4" Weight 135 pounds, no kids underbust: 32" bust: 37" (my breasts project pretty far, but are not very full, so I wear a 36 A) I am kind of hairy and struggle with acne which makes me think I have a lot of androgen

I started a BE routine a week ago:
FG 2g of ground seeds, raw 3X a day
Saw Palmetto 500mg 3X a day (comes with Stinging Nettle 300 mg)
Ground Flax 1000 mg 3x a day
Ashwaghanda, Siberian Ginseng, Alpha Lipoic Acid, CoQ10, and Gingko for general health

Massage for 15 min. with lavendar, almond, geranium, ylang ylang oils, apply heat before and after both morning and night

And I make tea 2x a day from fenugreek, anise, licorice, fennel, and cook with these herbs throughout the day along with foods strong in phytoestrogens.

As a typical newbie, I might have overdone it. I started on about day 15 of my cycle and did not ramp up slowly. At first, I experienced a huge increase in appetite and bloating. I imagine the appetite surge is from the fenugreek. However, my breasts are sore, the nipple as well as the areola seem to be expanding.... but this could be pre-menstrual related
Also, I am strongly rethinking using Saw Palmetto as I have read a lot of conflicting literature on its hormonal effects. I have read that Saw Palmetto does reduce the uptake of DHT but also inhibits aromatase, which converts testosterone to estrogen, which I imagine is bad for BE. Does anyone have any ideas about how Saw Palmetto fits in to the program? Also, I am currently out of the US and I am totally unable to get Saw Palmetto by itself. Most come with extracts of Stinging Nettle. Will Stinging Nettle negatively influence my BE?
How can I adjust my dosage of Fenugreek, since I am unable to get extract capsules and must only use the ground seeds?
I would like to have a big picture of breast growth and the hormones involved so I can make good decisions about which herbs to take, but it seems that this is still quite a dark subject in science.
Any suggestions for my routine or answers will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, and stay positive! I have no doubt that we can all grow

[Wahaika]

Hello zukoizon,

Are you on BC? If so, which one?

Add fenugreek extract to the massage, or steep fenugreek with the oils before using them, or add some of the tea you mentioned to it.

Saw Palmetto is a good BE herb. It may be an aromatase inhibitor to some degree, but if it is I think that role may be insignificant compared to other benefits.

>>"Also, I am strongly rethinking using Saw Palmetto as I have read a lot of conflicting literature on its hormonal effects. I have read that Saw Palmetto does reduce the uptake of DHT but also inhibits aromatase, which converts testosterone to estrogen, which I imagine is bad for BE. Does anyone have any ideas about how Saw Palmetto fits in to the program?"

I have not been able to find anything concrete that shows saw palmetto as an aromatase inhibitor. But even if it is, saw palmetto has a long and well established record in BE. I have also read that it is the combination of saw palmetto and the diosgenin in fenugreek that actually cause the breast growth to occur.

Do you have any links to info on saw palmetto as an aromatase inhibitor?

>>"Also, I am currently out of the US and I am totally unable to get Saw Palmetto by itself. Most come with extracts of Stinging Nettle. Will Stinging Nettle negatively influence my BE?"

Stinging nettle is mostly used to bind up SHBG so that one will have more free testosterone and estrogen. Stinging nettle is no problem at all.

>>"How can I adjust my dosage of Fenugreek, since I am unable to get extract capsules and must only use the ground seeds?"

Mainly you go by your overall size characteristics. I would say that you want to be in the neighborhood of 2000 to 3000mg per day of fenugreek. The best thing to do is to ramp it up slowly, starting on cycle day 1, until you either reach a maximum dosage or start to feel "growing pains." This process is usually handled in a one cycle timeframe but could take two.

>>"I would like to have a big picture of breast growth and the hormones involved so I can make good decisions about which herbs to take, but it seems that this is still quite a dark subject in science."

Go to greenbush.net and read up on kit #2. Also read Pammy's routine and about the first 10 or so posts in madredesiete's routine.

Good luck!

Wahaika

[zukoizon]

Wahaika,
Thank you so much for your help. I will definitely incorporate your suggestions. I have to say, I am fascinated and warmed by your commitment to helping women achieve BE.

I am not currently on birth control, but I was on Yasmin for a year- I got off it about 2 months ago. I am considering going back on it in about a month or two. Do you know of Yasmin inhibiting BE?

I might have been mistaken about reading that Saw Palmetto inhibited aromatase, since I didn't find the articles I thought I had read today when I did a search. Perhaps I was thinking of the Stinging Nettle, which I found some evidence as an aromatase inhibitor:
www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-32879662_ITM
which is why I thought I should be wary of it.

As for the Fenugreek, do you know what is typically in the capsules? Is it an extract of Fenugreek or simply the ground seeds? I don't have access to the extract, but only the ground seeds (bought as a spice in the store), so my question is whether the ground seeds are as potent as the capsule formula. If the capsules indeed contain the extract of Fenugreek, and not merely the ground seeds, I would think that I would have to take more of the ground seeds to equal the daily dosage.

Also, the information you have posted in Madredesiete's routine is exactly what I was looking for in terms of a broad understanding of the BE hormonal mechanism. Very interesting!

Also, I have already begun feeling deep breast pains, tenderness, and fullness. It's very exciting

Warmest wishes to you

[flatmama]

I'm not Wahaika but I can answer a couple of your questions.

Yasmin is good for BE, I think one of the best BCs for BE.

The Fenugreek capsules are ground fenugreek seed.

Good Luck!

FM

[zukoizon]

HOLY MOTHER!!! My boobs have grown .75 inch in a little over a month!
I am mid cycle and I finally measured. I have been massaging at least 40 minutes a day with heat before and after, using fenugreek, almond, lavander, and geranium oil. My herbs have been pretty messed up because I started out using too much without ramping and then stopping all together.
I have been eating lot of protein, though, especially right after massaging. I try to focus very hard on envisioning my growing breasts while I massage and heat. I also do longer sessions of hypnosis from Kenneth Blake.
I also have been drinking my tea fairly faithfully.
I don't even care about the exact measurement right now anyway. It's been clear to me that my breasts have been getting bigger. My boyfriend who is overseas even noticed it on webcam a week ago
I have been feeling a lot of soreness, heaviness, and tingling, pretty much non stop.

I have no doubt that the heat, oils, and massage are essential, but positive thinking and belief are essential as well!
Goodluck to everyone and keep pushing. Just believe it is happening here and now and imagine it, and it will be so!

Official Stats:
underbust: 32 inches
bust: 37.75

[serene]

Hey! Congrats on the growth! It sounds like you are doing really well!
Serene

[zukoizon]

To Serene and Flatmama, thanks for the comments. I appreciate the support!
Good luck to both of you and everyone else on here