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Post by amoreena on Feb 25, 2009 19:33:28 GMT -5
I started this with what was on hand and what I could easily get.
Saw Palmetto standardized extract in 160mg capsules - 3x a day
Fenugreek capsules - 5000 mg/day (this I've used on its own before and seen some change)
"mother's milk" tincture...fenugreek, blessed thistle, fennel...2 droppers/day
"bio identical diosgenin" cream from Dr. Helen...with red clover and wild yam...2x a day, with massage.
Dry massage 20 mins 4x/day
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I was taking 2000mg of that Saw Palmetto, until I realized extract is WAY more potent than plant material...whoops!!!
As soon as I started...the first day...I felt better. I've been doing this since the day after my last post, and already my skin is clearer and I feel more like myself...the "self" I was before I had my kid. I started having serious pains while I was taking the TON of saw palmetto, and I've noticed a marked difference in firmness which is still present now that I've cut down.
The first time I used the cream I almost felt high afterwards.
I've been researching and apparently Diosgenin is a precursor for both estrogen AND progesterone. Hmmmm.
I'm afraid I'm doing too much...it seems to be working too quicly to be healthy. Suggestions?
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Post by Wahaika on Feb 27, 2009 9:53:35 GMT -5
What kind of pains and where?
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Post by amoreena on Mar 3, 2009 19:48:11 GMT -5
Pains and tingling in my nipples...especially if it was cold. Also, my breasts were VERY tender...I didn't even want to lie on my stomach.
It's subsided since I ramped back down...but so have the size results I was seeing. But I've read over and over that too much + too fast=BAD.
The SP and cream...they definitely make me feel better, as in healthier. If I miss a dose I fell bad, but within 50 mins of taking them I feel better again. I must've needed...whatever they are doing.
I also read that diosgenin (I think I butchered the spelling) is a precursor for both progesterone and estrogen...which could explain why fenugreek was prescribed back when I was breastfeeding, even though estrogen is hostile to milk production.
I've had a horrible thought though...this isn't gonna make me LACTATE is it? yikes.
BTW...my libido is through the ROOF!!! is that normal, good, bad, or just coincidental?
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Post by Wahaika on Mar 3, 2009 23:31:55 GMT -5
2000mg of saw palmetto is not high. Taking it all at once is probably what caused the pains. But those pains are "growing pains" and are associated with growth.
I would say that you were a bit high on fenugreek, depending on your stats.
I have never heard of that cream. It could be good. You will only lactate if you have before.
The jump in libido is normal.
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Post by amoreena on Mar 4, 2009 9:13:17 GMT -5
Thank you so much for your replies. Help is much appreciated!!! I wish I had a boobie guru to tell me exactly what to do...like a hairdresser in a salon...a boobie dresser, lol!
What IS the difference between the standardized extract and just regular SP tablets?
The regular capsules come in 500mg and say take 1-3 each day.
The standardized extract comes in 160mg tablets and says take 1-3 a day.
But I'm not taking them for my nonexistent prostate, obviously!
So should I assume that 160mg of standardized extract is equivalent to 500mg of the regular? It's just liquid in a capsule.
Or should I be ramping up on that over time?
Hallelujah about the fenugreek. It's freaking NASTY!
This is so confusing.
I was really welcoming the pains but then I read over and over on this board that it shouldn't happen so fast (within a few days) and it means I'm overdoing it.
I'd love to go back to my original dose, as it seemed to be working much, much quicker. But is that too much too fast?
I suppose I'll take my chances on the lactating...I've breastfed before.
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Post by flatmama on Mar 4, 2009 9:25:42 GMT -5
When I first started I had a big surge in milk!  It only lasted about a week to 2 weeks though.....not a big deal. It went away. |
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Post by Wahaika on Mar 5, 2009 2:23:25 GMT -5
I wish I had a boobie guru to tell me exactly what to do...like a hairdresser in a salon...a boobie dresser, lol!
Well, cough, cough hack spit! I'm not that type. But it wouldn't matter because the best thing you can do is to learn everything for yourself and use your own best judgement. Women who have done this have always done better than those who rely completely on someone else like in a "salon" type situation. Learn. Learn. Learn.
The best way to do extracts is to use Greenbush. They are potent and always 1ml = 1000mg of dry herb.
As for tablets, never ever take herbal tablets. Always use capsules. Anything in a tablet has likely been over processed and is probably not as potent.
You might try going back to your original dosages and see if the growing pains return, or what adjustments you do to get them to return, paying attention to what cycle day you are on, and were on originally.
Wahaika
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Post by amoreena on Mar 5, 2009 11:19:31 GMT -5
I'll definitely try going back to my original doses.
Going to look into greenbush now...
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Post by amoreena on Mar 10, 2009 14:41:22 GMT -5
OK, so this is what I ended up on:
Saw Palmetto extract 4:1 in 700mg capsules - 1 cap 3x daily
Fenugreek capsules - 610mg capsules 2 caps 3x/day
Red clover Blossoms - 430mg capsules 2 caps 3x/day
"bio identical diosgenin" cream from Dr. Helen...with red clover and wild yam...2x a day, with massage.
Dry massage 20 mins 4x/day.
Should I be taking these all at once (I have been) or separately? I've been eating them on an empty stomach...if I divided up the dose I think I could never eat again.
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Post by amoreena on Apr 6, 2009 20:03:35 GMT -5
Well, I ended up doing...NOTHING.
At first I thought I felt better. And I was getting results.
Within a week I was depressed and anxious all the time. And I mean INSANE.
When I started having thoughts of suicide and I threw a book at my boyfriend...it was time to stop.
I've lost about 3lbs since stopping but kept the little growth I had.
AUUUUUGH!!!
Thinking it was the SP, but that was the thing that made growth come on hard and strong.
Might try adding all the other things back in.
I sure do wish there was a "doctor" or something to go to to find out what I should do.
I have to say that it feels good to feel like myself again, but my goals for BE still sit un-accomplished.
Anyone experienced anything like this? Any advice?
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Post by Wahaika on Apr 6, 2009 20:48:33 GMT -5
Well, as I'm no doctor, but you are definitely taking too many estrogenic substances. Dump the red clover and use fenugreek as your only internal estrogenic herb. Your fenugreek dosages are probably right on for your characteristics, but one of the side effects is the moodiness that it causes. You would do well to keep it at 3000mg per day total. You might also take some EPO. It will help to convert the testosterone that you are freeing up with the saw palmetto and help to clear your face. Dry massages are of little value. Make a good batter and use it along with a heated pad. Look in this thread of "transdemal considerations" as the title of the posting. beboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Routines&action=display&thread=3029 |
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Post by amoreena on Apr 7, 2009 9:08:32 GMT -5
Thanks...that's sort of what I was thinking of doing. I know I can handle fenugreek, it's never been a problem before. Neither has red clover...at least by themselves. But with the SP...this wasn't moodiness. This was a 5 day long panic attack that xanax couldn't break.
I'll definitely look into batter and massage. Going to that link now...
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