Dowsing Continued from Farmer's Wife Routine

[Wahaika]

Continued from this thread:
beboard.proboards107.com/?board=Routines&action=display&thread=4021&page=2


Well, the discussion seems to have taken a turn. I was about to cite the "big mouths" Wen was referring to, you know, like Paul, Hosea, Moses, etc. (because Dowsing/Divining is clearly condemned) but now we are saying that Meditation = Dowsing? Sorry folks. They are not the same thing. What flatmomma describes is meditation. It is definitely not dowsing. What Wenonae describes in the previous message is more aligned with "practice makes perfect" than what she has described in the past as "dowsing."

Therefore, I have some questions for Wenonae:

1. I could point to countless messages on this board where you advocate using a pendulum in one form or another. Fair enough. Divining or Dowsing use rods, sticks, or whatever they want to. Now you say that you do not use a pendulum. What do you use?

2. Are you dowsing or not? Yes or no. Please explain.

May 22, 2008 9:30:41 GMT -5 Wenonae said:

BTW, even though you can not dowse (which allows direct info from All-Knowing level), you can still Connect and get grounded. You’re doing kind of it by going to church, reading Bible, etc. However, instead of just focusing on external things, you can add some meditation (like for those days when you aren't at church, etc.). I can PM more information. Lemme know.


Wen’

I need bigger print - here it is again:
>>"BTW, even though you can not dowse (which allows direct info from All-Knowing level), you can still Connect and get grounded. You’re doing kind of it by going to church, reading Bible, etc. However, instead of just focusing on external things, you can add some meditation (like for those days when you aren't at church, etc.). I can PM more information. Lemme know."

I have thought for a long time that you are simply deceived and are inadvertently deceiving others. In the quote above you are equating dowsing (or whatever you have graduated to) with "going to church, reading Bible, etc." Further, the first sentence directly implies that dowsing allows "direct info from All-Knowing level."
As if prayer does not do the same? I think you are deceived and well down a dangerous path and are leading others with you.

If you disagree, help me understand.

Wahaika

[flatmama]

I am a bit confused to. I don't know much about dowsing but what I've read it didn't seem like meditation but when Wen said it was similar I really didn't know what to think. It would be good if you could explain this more Wen. Thanks
Again, I don't agree with dowsing but I am confused and would like to clear it up.

[flatmama]

"For those who have dowsing ability, meditation is interactive (listening and asking) where you can get immediate response to queries for concerns and questions. It happens at a very very fast pace (~3-15 secs).

For those who can't dowse, meditation is just listening, just being connected to the One. Also, it can take a little while longer to get centered (~3 - 25 minutes )."

As far as that goes Wen, Why can't you recieve immediate answers to questions you ask if you don't dowse?
Very often I have received immediate answers to my prayers and even to questions I have while meditating as this is just a continued prayer to me.
I don't believe dowsing gives you any extra special connection to God that prayer and meditation doesn't.

[more4meplz]

Flatmama- From my own experience meditation is the same principle as dowsing. The difference - with dowsing you use a tool or your body. Prayer, mediation, and dowsing are all generally the same as we are directly communicating with God. The reason Wen' said you cannot receive immediate answers when meditating is because for some people it may take up to 20 min or longer to become connected to the light. Once you are there you can receive immediate answers. I do this myself as I'm not able to dowse. Dowsing doesn't give any special connection to God that prayer and meditating doesn't. It simply allows you to become in tune and connected faster thus giving you the answer you are seeking faster.

[flatmama]

This is the 'gripes' board right? so I really don't see why Wahaika can't complain about whatever he wants to. I thought the gripes page was the place for us to 'let off some steam'.....not where we had to keep hard feelings to ourselves...if this was another board I'm sure that would be appropriate.

[Wahaika]

chartuininga,

I try to be clear and direct. This may seem like I am upset. Nope. I have
been though this discussion more than once.
I am not speculating.
I am being fair. But I have to be fair to everyone don't you agree?

>>"That being said keeping speculation and hard feelings to oneself during a discussion like this would enable the rest of us to learn a whole lot more without any sort of bias."

Bias of what? What do you mean?

The first observation I should make is that it is none of my business if Wenonae
dowses. I truly would rather that she didn't but it is her business what she
does with herself, not mine.

The problem that I have, and have always had, is where she pulls others into the
practice when they obviously (to me) have no idea what they are getting into.
Some are led to believe that dowsing is how BE is done. As if it were
acceptable and in past times, expected. I have watched as my sound advice is
countered and usually there is a prediction of time and size associated with it.
My method has been to be nice and let time run out and let the predictions fail
as I have watched them do time after time for the past four years on this board. (Dowsing was introduced about four years ago) But let's face it.
What I have just described is a waste of time on everyone's part.

As far as religious implications go, the practice is unacceptable to God and has
been denounced by His prophets for ages. If people want to choose to dowse,
then I can do nothing about that except respect their freedom to choose. But
let them choose with their eyes open.

When I see dowsing twisted into meaning something it is not, especially prayer
and ponderment/meditation/reflection, that is where I draw the line. If I see
people who are choosing dowsing because it begins to appear like something it is
not, therefore leading some down a path that they would not take if they knew
the truth, then it is then my responsibility to speak up and clear the
misunderstanding. If they choose to dowse after that, so be it. But at least
they made the choice after having been warned.

Dowsing is not meditation.

Dowsing is not prayer.

And since dowsing is condemned by God, it is not even a prayer help.

If someone claims to be a Christian, then this is already defined. I am not knocking anyone's religion by questioning dowsing. I am reminding them of it.

Again, if people want to choose to dowse, then I can do nothing about that except respect their freedom to choose. But let them choose with their eyes open.

Wahaika

[Dollie]

So Wahaika what your saying is because I use the rosary as a praying tool I'm in a cult?
and if your information on BE is so correct than why has not everyone that listens to you grown?
Who are you to condemn dowsing or meditation? Some people need a tool to get in touch with God or others to get in touch with their own inner self that does not mean they are evil or are in a cult.

As long as I have been on this board and yes I belong to every board that Pammy was on so it has been about 8 years, NOBODY has had the results with one routine as Pammy did.

And I tried every routine and product that was out there and guess what none of it worked like Wen's.

With dowsing, meditations and getting more in tune with my spirituality I have grown and FINALLY kept my growth and have stayed HEALTHY.

Pammy and your advice has ended up with me having to get a hysterectomy.
And the only person to blame is me for being so gullible to listen because Pammy grew so much and according to you your wife.

Finally Ladies there is no magic formula, every one is different. Fawn only grew on BO, herbs made her nuts, Pammy grew on a few herbs. Wen grew on different things lost some of the growth until she got in touch with her spirituality.

So ladies do your research and do what feel RIGHT for you.

All I know using a pendulum is just a tool like the rosary is a tool. So because I use a tool you believe I'm in a cult? And isn't the bible another tool? You read it and you use it as a reference.

[Wenonae]

Dollie, Chartinuga, More4meplz-

Thank you very much for your kind words.

It's because of my sincere desire to help and hearing about the positive end results that in part keep me going. The other part is to make sure that stories like Dollie are kept to a minimum by getting as much information of all types out there for people to decide on their own.

Wen'

[Wenonae]

May 22, 2008 10:50:23 GMT -5 Wahaika said:

.....
If you disagree, help me understand.

Wahaika

I disagree with you, but I don't think it's possible for me to "help" you understand because in spite of all of the numerous posts of help (logical or dowsed) and all of the positive feedback provided over the past 4+ YEARS - you're STILL writing a post like this to prove something to you. It's hilarious and really kind of sad.

I mean if you can't "see" something from all of the information disseminated on here- then what can else I "show" you?

Absolutely,
positively
nothing.

[/size][/center]

Wen'

[Wahaika]

>>"So Wahaika what your saying is because I use the rosary as a praying tool I'm in a cult?"

Can I ask you to point out exactly where I even implied that a rosary is in the same category as a pendulum? I think you have just made my point. The line between dowsing and prayer is getting blurred beyond even what I imagined.

>>"and if your information on BE is so correct than why has not everyone that listens to you grown?"

Plenty have grown and this is completely beside the point. Don't get sucked into the argument that because dowsing has successes that it is legit.

>>"Who are you to condemn dowsing or meditation? Some people need a tool to get in touch with God or others to get in touch with their own inner self that does not mean they are evil or are in a cult."

Who do I have to be? I have said nothing about tools such as a rosary to keep track of prayers, or even a 3X5 card to keep a list of things to pray about. I have only addressed dowsing.

>>"As long as I have been on this board and yes I belong to every board that Pammy was on so it has been about 8 years, NOBODY has had the results with one routine as Pammy did."

It sounds like we have been around for about the same amount of time. But you have a pretty short memory. Pammy's initial success was with her Greenbush routine. She went from B to C/D. She took an extended break and then used Quickbust which took her to D. She did other things after that which took her to where she is now, DD/E/F/whatever. Her success was not in one routine. It wasn't even in one calendar year.

>>"And I tried every routine and product that was out there and guess what none of it worked like Wen's. With dowsing, meditations and getting more in tune with my spirituality I have grown and FINALLY kept my growth and have stayed HEALTHY."

I have not questioned that dowsing has some successes. I do not even question the source of those successes and I have written in the past about this. My current issue is that dowsing is getting blurred with prayer. You might want to do some further research on dowsing if you think that there is anything good about it.

>>"Pammy and your advice has ended up with me having to get a hysterectomy.
And the only person to blame is me for being so gullible to listen because Pammy grew so much and according to you your wife."

I am sorry that you had a hysterectomy. But to your credit you blame yourself. But even you may not be completely to blame. The dosages that anyone on this board has suggested, not just me, are all in about the same ranges. These are safe ranges for someone who is healthy and in my case, I suggest maximums to stay safe and to also avoid stalling. Rule #1 has always been start out healthy. I find it hard to believe that anyone, including you, would intentionally start BE without at least thinking that you are healthy first. Another person you might place blame on, if there is any, is your doctor who recommended a hysterectomy. They are sometimes the easy way out and some doctors suggest it too easily in my own opinion.

>>"All I know using a pendulum is just a tool like the rosary is a tool. So because I use a tool you believe I'm in a cult? And isn't the bible another tool? You read it and you use it as a reference. "

Again, using a pendulum is not like using a rosary or the Bible, etc. They are not in the same category. Do some research. As to being in a cult or not, I have made no such accusation. But now that you bring it up, do some research into what a cult is and then you tell me if there are any signs of it.

Wahaika

[Wahaika]

May 22, 2008 10:50:23 GMT -5 Wahaika said:

Therefore, I have some questions for Wenonae:

1. I could point to countless messages on this board where you advocate using a pendulum in one form or another. Fair enough. Divining or Dowsing use rods, sticks, or whatever they want to. Now you say that you do not use a pendulum. What do you use?

2. Are you dowsing or not? Yes or no. Please explain.

Ah, yes. The same old Wenonae. Ducking the questions and responding with ad hominem.

I sometimes expect too much.

[Dollie]

First of all I was very healthy before I started taking the herbs, and I'm very healthy now thanks to Wen and me listening to my body. ( Which I do by praying, reading the Bible, meditating and dowsing)
People like you who think they know everything and make people believe what you write is true is what I have a problem with. A lot of Innocent girls who don't know a lot about BE listen to you and ramp up and down with the herbs, minerals and oils are the ones I'm worried about.

Secondly, I want to know what is the difference If I use a rosary or pendulum to get in touch with God? You have no problem with a rosary but yet a problem with a Pendulum.
You just believe dowsing is a cult.
Plus you must have a different bible than I have cause I have not read or seen in it that God condemns it.
Your not getting the point, you think dowsing is a cult a bad dark thing or even witchcraft.
Maybe some people use a pendulum for it, but they also use candles to make spells. So all candles are evil too?
Using a tool to get in tune spiritually is not evil whether that tool is a rosary, pendulum, index cards or the bible.
But nobody is going to get thru your thick skull anyways.

Third NO ONE on this board grew like Pammy. If they did they would have posted pictures to be proud of it.
Pammy went from a AB to a DD using greenbush, and quick bust and nothing else. (Both products still were herbs.
She even drank alcohol and smoked and still got to her size. In the beginning she did give up the smokes for a while and the alcohol and coffee.

You ideas about BE are sound but bottom line they will not work for everyone. Not everyone will grow from those ideas no matter how scientific you word it, some will get sick from it and mess up their hormones even more so. But unfortunately you don't stress that enough you just always harp on dowsing being evil.

[Wahaika]

Hello Dolly, (sorry, couldn't resist )

One can only do so much in a medium where it is written text only, with no voice inflections, body language, facial expressions, etc. to rely on to set the intended tone. When you read this, please do not inject any malice or feelings of hatred into my comments. It is just not there.

>>"People like you who think they know everything and make people believe what you write is true is what I have a problem with. A lot of Innocent girls who don't know a lot about BE listen to you and ramp up and down with the herbs, minerals and oils are the ones I'm worried about."

THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME!

If you disagree with any of my methods, please, let's discuss it. You have been around for 8 years. It is reasonable that you should know what you are talking about. Let's discuss it. But this thread is not about me. It is about dowsing and the confusion of it with prayer, and the encouragement of that misunderstanding.

And while we're on it, I have the same concern about innocent women who come on this board, have no idea what dowsing is (yourself included, apparently) and get drawn into it when they would not have otherwise.

---

Secondly, I want to know what is the difference If I use a rosary or pendulum to get in touch with God? You have no problem with a rosary but yet a problem with a Pendulum.

Before I answer that, I would like a question answered from you if you don't mind (I'm sure you do, but here it goes anyway):

Why not use an oiuja board instead of a pendulum as a "tool" to get in touch with God? After all, it's just like a screwdriver right? It's just a tool, right? Please answer.

>>"You just believe dowsing is a cult."

Do some research on what a cult is and you would understand my answer.

>>"Plus you must have a different bible than I have cause I have not read or seen in it that God condemns it."

King James Version:

Deuteronomy 18:9-14
9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.

Ezekiel 12:24
24 For there shall be no more any vain vision nor flattering divination within the house of Israel.

Ezekiel 13:6-8
6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?
8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.

Hosea 4:12
12 My people ask counsel at their stocks, and their staff declareth unto them: for the spirit of sleeperdoms hath caused them to err, and they have gone a whoring from under their God.

Acts 16:16-18
16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

(I'm sure I can find more references if you are interested. But my guess is that you are going to now tell me that I am twisting it in some way.)

>>"Your not getting the point, you think dowsing is a cult a bad dark thing or even witchcraft. Maybe some people use a pendulum for it, but they also use candles to make spells. So all candles are evil too?
Using a tool to get in tune spiritually is not evil whether that tool is a rosary, pendulum, index cards or the bible."

Then by your logic, if someone feels the need to use an ouija board to "get in tune spiritually" that is OK, correct?

>>"But nobody is going to get thru your thick skull anyways. "

Probably right.

---

>>"Third NO ONE on this board grew like Pammy. "


I actually post on two boards so we might as well use examples from both.

BEBOARD:

Candy...............36 to 38

EnglishChick......36 to 40

Pammy.............32B to 32D-

Prettysoulful.....33 to 35

QueenB............36 to 38 (D)

Satu.................35 to 40

Eve's Forum:

Shell.............36A to 36D

Surf..............32 to 37

FennelFairy...36A to 36C (one centemeter short of D!)

Jelly..............34A to 32D

>>"If they did they would have posted pictures to be proud of it."

Nope. I totally disagree with that statement.

.
.
.

>>"You ideas about BE are sound but bottom line they will not work for everyone. Not everyone will grow from those ideas no matter how scientific you word it, some will get sick from it and mess up their hormones even more so. But unfortunately you don't stress that enough you just always harp on dowsing being evil."

<FLAME ON!>
There is no evidence that your hysterectomy had anything to do with what was going on on this board as a result of something that I said. If so, produce it now or stop making baseless accusations. I have gone through all 14 pages of routines since this board began and I cannot find a routine page for you. Where is it? Where are the posts asking me about anything whatsoever??? HMMM???

If you are/were off doing something on your own, don't blame me or anyone else. I would have done everything I could to have helped you if I only knew you were having problems. There are others who could have helped as well, some far better than I.

Look at the bottom of each and every page including this one. You will find 6 board rules posted by Pammy for all to see. Pay particular attention to #4 and #5.
<FLAME OFF!>

Back to the subject of this thread.

I'll answer your questions about my opinion of dowsing and cults in more detail when I am satisfied that you have an understanding of dowsing and an understanding of what a cult is. Please, look it up. The short answer is that the definition of dowsing and the definition of cults are not the same thing. Dowsing is a practice. A cult is not. But you could have a cult where the members dowse.

Do I think that dowsing is evil? Yes.

Do I think that dowsing is condemned by God? Yes, and I have shown examples.

Do I think that dowsing and Christianity are incompatible? Yes.

Is anyone ever going to convince me otherwise? No.

Do I think that all dowsers are evil people? No. But I do think that those who are not outright evil are misguided and deceived.

Do I think that dowsing works? I think it has in some cases, but I equate the acceptance of results obtained by dowsing to that of accepting dirty money, in principle, morally.

I hope that I have answered your post clearly.

Wahaika

[Dollie]

Bottom like your an A$$ and yes according to the doctors my cysts on my ovaries were caused by the herbs and BO.

Your no doctor. Your just a man obsessed with getting his wife bigger breasts.

I'm not on Eve's site so I have not seen any of those results , have you seen all those breasts in person?

If your information was so valuable you would be making tons of money on it.
Which is probably what your searching for.


All of your accusations are just that.

I'm glad I don't come her anymore for advise
I just feel sorry for all the woman that don't listen to their own bodies and listen to your advice cause you are just like Bob from the other site and a lot of woman ended up with medical problems. BO, Estrogen and Herbs are not 100% safe for everyone and that is the bottom line.

By the way picture can be deceiving have you seen all those woman on Eve's board in person???
And further more it is your interpreting of the Bible that dowsing is evil.
I did not see one word in their that said DOWSING.
And I disagree with your interpretation and so do many other people on this board.

You just THINK your superior and dowsing is evil and ANYONE that disagrees with you doesn't know what they are talking about.

By the way are you some kind of minister??? Like the ones in Texas?


Like I said before and will say it again everyone has their own believes.

But unlike you I DON'T condemn people for it.

If dowsing helps a person, they stay healthy, feel better not only health wise but spiritually and are more compassionated toward other people why YOU think you have they right to condemn them for it.

And that is the problem I have with you and that is why I think your are an A$$.
YOU THINK DOWSING IS EVIL AND CONDEMN PEOPLE FOR IT.

bottom line it is YOUR OPINION and your only a man obsessed with seeing women with big boobs. Why else would you be on here for so long

Why can't you just leave dowsing alone?
Seems like your not happy unless you can convince people it is evil and not everyone on this board feels that it is. It is just your opinion and that is it so let people be.

[Wahaika]

Well Dollie, I guess you are entitled to your opinions as wrong as each and every one of your accusations are.

I am not going to respond to name calling. (Actually, I already did when Wenonae and Fawn did the same thing - you can look it up) Let me know when you are ready for a rational discussion.

This is my last post to you. I leave you now to respond one more time if you feel the need, so that you can have the last word.

Good bye Dolle.