research on hormonal bioactivity of some herbs

[twilightsrose]

I found the write-up of a study researching the "Estrogen and Progestin Bioactivity of Foods, Herbs, and Spices". This study was done by California Public Health Foundation, Berkeley, California. They tested the ER-binding and PR-binding activity, of what are commonly considered estrogenic or progestogenic herbs, on breast cancer cells. I think the info could give good insight into why certain herbs effect/don't effect BE. The discussion portion seems to be the most interesting - it gives a summary of the research done and a good summary of the results.

Unfortunately, even the discussion summary/conclusion was too long for a message, but here is the link to the results:

www.cancersupportivecare.com/estrogenherb.html#results

Take care,

Twilightsrose

[anita22179]

how confusing!!
this means genistein found in soy, red clover and licorice, increases ER binding properties in saliva and is responsible for cell division. these may also suppress endogenous oestradiol production. what confuses me is that if these herbs induce cell division on one hand, how can they be anti-cancerous on the other?and then, if they suppress endogenous oestradiol production, is that good for us in the long run?
the report also suggests soy as the herb with highest ER binding properties without a concomitant rise in oestradiol levels, in that case it should really help BE, but we generally avoid soy products coz they are hard on thyroid ,isnt that too bad! then again, people in few countries consume a lot of these phytoestrogens including soy, especially the chinese, the majority of them are small breasted(why?) and the breast cancer incidences are also quite low here as compared to the western world.
can we have soy products along with BO? i guess the answer will come back as a big NO

another fact stated here is while red clover can be classified as an antiprogestin, damiana is neutral coz it does not inhibit progesterone mediated induction of alkaline phosphatase, unlike red clover. another confusion...
er well...had just another absurd idea, if we can apply red clover and the rest of oestrogenic herbs topically, why cant we try that out with soy, the most potent of them all? ok guess thats enough of ridiculous ideas

[mominator]

Curious thought there Anita with the soy topically! Hmmmm....we know it's a high phyto-estrogen...so why not topical?

Never looked, but I wonder if it does come in an extract form?

[twilightsrose]

Actually, I'm not convinced Soy would be helpful. According to the article Soy seems to be a estrogen antagonist as opposed to an agonist. It looks like there are different forms of phytoestrogens. Those which bind to estrogen and enhance estrogen, and those which bind with estrogen in order to block it: "Soy foods, which contain high levels of the phytoestrogen genistein, also suppress estradiol synthesis by direct genistein inhibition of aromatase and 17B steroid oxidoreductase, (22)enzymes necessary for the conversion of androgens to estrone and estrone to estradiol, respectively." That means that it blocks the conversion of androgens to estrogens, thus promoting higher androgen levels vs. estrogen leves.

Take care,

Twilightsrose

[anita22179]

yep, it says that soy possibly lowers endogenous eostradiol production coz of high genistein levels. but genistein is also present in other legumes like licorice and red clover. then they also report
''Results depicted in Figure 7 demonstrate that soy milk consumption in most of the participants led to a dramatic rise from 1-3 hr in ER-binding components in saliva followed by a steep fall, and then a second rise, in some par- ticipants from 5-12 hr. Although the ER-binding components showed dramatic fluctuations associated with soy milk consumption, saliva estradiol levels, determined by RIA did not change significantly in any of the six volunteers over this 24-hr time course (data not shown). Moreover, when cow's milk or other food products not found to contain phytoestrogens were consumed under the same conditions, there was no significant change in the baseline levels of ER- binding components in saliva."

bit contradicting information...

[Wenonae]

Wow!...This is a 'tough' paper.

Fawn shared something similar on MSN..wonder if this is the whole artcle.

Great share, TR! ;D

(I checked, and it's a different source that Fawn had, however, the researchers were in a similar part of California.)

[Wenonae]

Here's an interesting part:

" Many of the diosgenin-containing herbal products (Dioscorea-wild yam) are being sold under the guise that they are progesterone precursors and will be converted in vivo into progesterone and other steroids (DHEA). None of the saliva from women reporting consumption of diosgenincontaining herbs was found to possess any progesterone bioactivity despite high levels of PR-binding components in some of them (20%-30%). Moreover, all of the saliva from the 11 women who were using diosgenin-containing products also contained very low levels of progesterone, determined by RIA (mean 19, range 5-34 pg/ml progesterone). Hence, our preliminary data support recent arguments (31,32) and uncontrolled pilot clinical studies (3) that diosgenin is not converted to progesterone in the human body."

So's Fawn speak on potency of W/Y is discussed here yet again. So, it may be better for it estrogenic contribution..and not for it's proposed progesterone contirbution.