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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 10:33:40 GMT -5
From: 7266Soul (Original Message) Sent: 8/15/2003 9:10 AM
Hi ladies,
Just wondering how those on damiana / oregano are getting on. I was reading the posts about blocking progesterone to be certain fat gets stored in the breasts rather than just fluctuating temporarily and have just started damiana. I think my problem is that I 'respond' size-wise but can't seem to hold the fat (or is it just water or temp. glandular tissue?). And I think it was Wen who said that if you're on quite high amounts of SP and your libido is lowish, then it's a sign you still have too much progesterone! Well this is definitely me! I'm a bit fuller and feel a few tingles, but nothing ever lasts! So I just wondered how those who've been on damiana longer are finding it? Any boobage girls?
WG
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 10:34:00 GMT -5
From: dishrag Sent: 8/15/2003 2:48 PM
Woa...now that's interesting about the low libido. I'm taking 6000mgSP and I just ovulated and I'm usually kinda well you know...looking at everthing in pants around this time of the month. This month I just got grouchy. What does this mean? Too much progesterone? Me? I've been pretty low for about three or four years...started when I was on the pill for about a year. Stopped taking it cause I couldn't take feeling blah all the time. Got a little better but never back to normal with my normal cyclical swings and symptoms. You guys ask the most interesting questions. I hate stopping in at this board for this reason. I start thinking about all this stuff and then I don't get anything done. Look forward to reading the answers to WG's question. dish
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 10:34:17 GMT -5
From: Wenonae_ Sent: 8/15/2003 2:55 PM
WG,
Libido's a-rising. To date, two weeks on Oregano. First one, 400mg, Second, 600mg (taken at same time as BO), diameter gain, approximately 0.25" on smallest .
Adding 1500mg damiana this weekend since libido's going up anyways...will keep board updated. Maybe I'll hold off on any hypnosis and see how this all goes. It can only get better.
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 10:34:38 GMT -5
From: fawnmarie42 Sent: 8/15/2003 3:32 PM
Hiya Ladies -
Need to add a little clarification here, because I think there is some misunderstanding...
There seems to be two hormones that affect sex drive - testosterone (androgens) and progesterone. Although progesterone is not widely known as a libido enhancer, it is one. It improves mood and energy and is a relaxant hormone. Both men and women have noted that their libido improves when using progesterone. Testosterone is very commonly known to increase sex drive.
Saw Palmetto works on androgens - actually it blocks it from entering testosterone receptors. High dosages of saw palmetto will indeed lower libido. Normally I'm a pretty frisky girl, too, but these 5-7 grams of saw palmetto have turned me into a Vulcan.
The affect of damiana is a little different and is not related to androgens - but to progesterone. Damiana (and oregano) "fits" progesterone receptors. Now the affect of damiana is a little different than that of real progesterone, as in it doesn't seem to cause the same effect on the cells (downregulating cortisol, prolactin and estrogen) - however - it DOES seem to affect sex drive when used systemically. We don't know why. In the lab, damiana (diosgenin) doesn't not affect cells like progesterone - at least not breast cells. In an actual human being, it does seem to affect libido the same way progesterone does.
So - if you are on high amounts of SP and your libido is lowish - that means that it is working and you are getting enough to keep your natural testosterone from raising your sex drive. So, a lowered libido on SP does NOT mean you are getting too much progesterone.
When taking saw palmetto, damiana (and obviously oregano) can counteract the loss of sex drive by stimulating the progesterone receptors (while ensuring that real progesterone doesn't affect breast growth).
Remember -not all hormones produce the same reaction in ALL cells of the body. Progesterone in breast tissue produces a different affect than progesterone elsewhere.
I'm afraid I'm not making this very clear, am I?
sigh.
fawn
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 10:34:55 GMT -5
From: Mominator5 Sent: 8/15/2003 3:53 PM
I got it! Thanks Fawn! We can always count on you to set our fenugreek ways straight!
Our lil' herbalist...we would be lost without you!
Momi'
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 10:35:12 GMT -5
From: Wenonae_ Sent: 8/15/2003 6:54 PM
Thanks, Fawn...it's even clearer . SP-androgens (testosterone) blocker....Damiana, oregano are progesterone-blockers in breast receptors.
Loss of libido means SP's it's working! and it takes BOTH to be blocked in breast receptors for booby progress.... K, next chapter in Booby Saga!
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 10:35:33 GMT -5
From: anita22179 Sent: 8/16/2003 11:33 AM
hi fawn,
was just wondering...you said we are supposed to take progesterone either of the 2 ways...
1. every month on days 21-26 OR
2. 2 mths off, 1 mth on for days 12-26
am i right in this assumption? my question is, how are those on PR blockers supposed to use progesterone? i understand we need to use it as sparingly as possible but we still need it every 3 mths, so for those on damiana or other PR blockers, no matter when they take progesterone its not going to act on the body isnt it? or is it that it blocks the action of progesterone in breast receptors only?
for me progesterone is extremely important but i also want to make the most of my BE programme and add damiana to it along with BO, SP and prenenolone, so how do i use progesterone while on damiana if all of it is going to be blocked anyway?
confused as always
anita
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 10:35:50 GMT -5
From: Wenonae_ Sent: 8/16/2003 11:50 AM
Anita,
Damiana and oregano among other herbs ONLY AFFECT/BLOCK PROGESTERONE in breast receptors only....so you'll potentially need lots of help in that dept. So, buy a bottle or two of damiana that will allow you to have a dose of 1500-3000mg consistently for a month so u can assess how well it helps you.
Good luck!
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 10:36:15 GMT -5
From: fawnmarie42 Sent: 8/16/2003 1:44 PM
Wen -
We don't know that damiana ONLY affects breast tissue - we just know that it definitely affects breast tissue and the phytoprogesterones do indeed work as antagonists or neutral blockers in breast tissue. Other tissues with progesterone receptors have not been tested - just breast tissue.
It's an unknown, and I would be cautious to make a broad statement that it only affects breast tissues. It's just only been tested against breast tissue.
It may work similarly in the uterine and ovarian PR receptors. There are also other tissues with PR receptors, too. Like bone - progesterone helps store and move calcium into bone. I haven't found any studies that show whether or not damiana or any of the other PR blockers work as an antagonist or agonist on bone.
We don't know what tissues/organs are affected positively by oregano or damiana - could be the hypothalmus or hippocampus.
Fawn
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 10:36:33 GMT -5
From: Wenonae_ Sent: 8/16/2003 1:53 PM
Thanks for further clarifying.. Will try to track any 'unusual' changes, if any.
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 10:36:51 GMT -5
From: 7266Soul Sent: 8/17/2003 10:00 AM
Thanks Wen, Fawn (I've copied your explanation into my notes so I don't forget!) and everyone.
Glad to see the SP is working for me! (low libido)!! Let's update each other on damiano/oregano progress, 'kay?
WG
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 10:37:07 GMT -5
From: Mansi Sent: 8/17/2003 10:08 AM
HI Fawn,
I am not sure I have understood it correct, but :
Are wild yam and damiana interchangeble?? I mean they both are phytoprogestrons right??
Can you replace wild yam with damiana?
Please correct me if I am wrong???
Thanks a lot
Mansi
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 10:37:25 GMT -5
From: anita22179 Sent: 8/17/2003 11:37 AM
hi fawn,
my question is can people who are naturally low or very low in progesterone use damiana or will it be a bit too much if they blocked whatever little prog. they had in their system? i have always had very low progesterone, as a result oestrogen dominant but never greww coz overall levels of oestro/prog were low and andro high comparatively. also whether high or low, all of us should be using progesterone at least once in 3 mths ( 2 mths storing fat, 1 mth balancing and so on), so how can that help us if we are blocking that by taking damiana ( those who do)anyway, since damiana may act on ovarian and uterine receptors as well?
anita
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 10:37:52 GMT -5
From: fawnmarie42 Sent: 8/17/2003 11:57 AM
Anita -
Naw - you shouldn't need damiana. I don't use it myself.
I think in Wen's case she is using it because she is taking a progetin form of birth control. For the most part, I don't think it's a necessary first step.
For those who have libido problems they would like to deal with, it might be useful. But this is aside and apart from BE.
Fawn
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