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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 13:38:34 GMT -5
From: warrior-girl Sent: 5/16/2003 7:27 AM
Hi Vic, sorry to hear you put in so much effort including massage and didn't have much luck. How are you doing on the BO? Any tingles? I'm planning to start taking BO again in 2 mths following advice Fawn gave me. She recommended taking Saw Palmetto as it's an androgen blocker (sometimes excess estrogen is converted to androgens, which we don't want for BE). I know that we're all different and there's no single regimen for everyone, but if you'd like to see what Fawn recommended to me, here it is: At the beginning of your next period, go back on the BO (start at 1800 mgs and then up it to 2000-2200 during the second half of your cycle). Add 3000 mgs saw palmetto and EPO and fish oil internally (3000mgs each per day). Don't use the DHEA. If you're over 35, use whatever pregnenolone twice a week (30-50mgs x 2), but no more. Don't try the progesterone until cycle 4, then use it from day 14-30.<o:p></o:p>
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Break your BO up into 4 doses, and add 1,000 mgs of both EPO & fish oil to the first three doses. Take the BO & oils with a small protein snack. Do not take them when you are eating high fiber meals. Take your last BO dose within 3 hours of bedtime. You can also do what I do and take a pituitary glandular with it right before bed.<o:p></o:p>
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Take your saw palmetto on an empty stomach - 1,000 mgs x 3 per day
<o:p>Let us know what happens and good luck.</o:p>
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 13:38:57 GMT -5
From: Vicky5012 Sent: 5/16/2003 9:09 AM
Thank you all!! You guys are sooo helpful!! Fawn: should I omit progesterone during my current cycle ( Cycle 4)? What should I do for cycle5? What would you recommend? What about topical application? Should I change anything? Do I need to add SP ( this is what you recommended to Fudge..) ( Thank you Fudge!!) Questions, questions..... Thanks! Vic
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 13:39:15 GMT -5
From: fawnmarie42 Sent: 5/16/2003 9:55 AM
Yes - Omit it - or at the very least only use it on days 21-30. This is when you're natural production is at its highest and may help a bit with PMS if you REALLY need it. Some of us REALLY need it, and are unliveable without a little. So if you become that way, use a very little on days 21-30. Or even on just days 21-24. Do the same for cycle 5 and 6. SP is an anti-androgen, and if you are converting to testosterone, it will stop it from affecting your BE efforts. Take on an empty stomach, 1000 mgs (or thereabouts) 3 times a day. Do not buy the standardized 160 mgs. Those are for men. Use the high dose, raw herb (475-500mgs) ones. If you still do not get any changes after cycle 5 you can go up to 2400 mgs BO. I personally won't grow on just 1800, and I am not thin or small or even all that small busted. So, I don't even bother to start at 1800 - I already know I need 2400. DO discontinue the DHEA and cut back on the pregnenolone. Take your BO in 4 doses with 1 gram each of EPO & salmon oil (not at last dose) and take with a small PROTEIN meal - ie. hard-boiled egg, piece of ham, 1/2 cup cottage cheese, etc. Take your last dose about 1.5 hours before bed. Check your temps and make sure they are abve 98. And add heat to your massage if possible. Fawn
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 13:39:43 GMT -5
From: Vicky5012 Sent: 5/16/2003 11:52 AM
Hi, Fawn Thank you ! Some additional information: First of all I am very balanced , no PMS,etc, regular cycles.Does this mean, I don't really need progesterone? SO, should I continue with omitting progesterone for cycles 5 and 6? BO: I am presently on 2500gms BO ( increased it from 2000m,g during my 3 cycle). I take 1000mg in the AM ( 6:30), 500mg ( at lunch) and 1000mg ( dinner- around 5:30-6PM). I guess this is no good? What exactly should I change? Pregnenolone: I am taking 50mg daily. How often and how much should I take? Temps: above 98 Heat: I do apply heat before massage with EPO... Fawn- thank you for your help...much appreciated... Hope to hear from you soon... Vic
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 13:40:03 GMT -5
From: Vicky5012 Sent: 5/16/2003 6:19 PM Hi, Fawn Here is my routine ( Bob's protocol): 38 yrs ; 2 kids ( breasfed X1) used BE herbs in the past for 6 months with no results; BO start date: 13 Feb 03 protein shakes ( approx .40mg twice daily) chelated calcium/mag pill ( 3 daily) 1 g MSM 2 g EPO 1 g Fish oil 1 g flax seed oil 25 mg DHEA 50mg Pregnenolone progesterone cream 20mg (day12-26) multi-vitamins 1pill daily massage with either EPO or fennel/geramium in almond oil + heat
Goal: 34 A Thanks a lot!
Vic
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 13:40:21 GMT -5
From: Mominator5 Sent: 5/16/2003 6:53 PM
Hi Vic, Would you mind posting this again on the "routines" page? That would be great, I don't think there are too many BO routines on it. Mominator
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 13:40:38 GMT -5
From: Wenonae_ Sent: 5/16/2003 6:59 PM
Hey Momi' and Vic, Let's get verfication from Fawn, then let's hear about great results from Vic before posting this one. There are a couple of things she's working on to improve her routine for those great results...rite, Vic?
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 13:40:59 GMT -5
From: fawnmarie42 Sent: 5/17/2003 4:37 PM
Vic, Okay - DROP the progesterone - if you were already high in progesterone you don't need to add more. Here's another thing - I think BO affects and adds progesterone all by itself, anyway. Don't need to add more. Pregnenolone - since you've been taking it awhile, your reserves are tapped up, so cut back to 3 x per week. Take before bed. Also take your largest dose of BO before bed - Take 500 x 3 + 1,000 before bed with pregnenolone, with a protein shake as a snack. Drop the DHEA altogether and add Saw Palmetto instead. Refrigerate the DHEA for later. Are you taking 2 - 40gram shakes per day to equal 80 grams? Or 2 - 20gram shakes? Take 2 - 20 grams shakes or even 3 - 20 grams shakes, but do not consume 40grams of protein all in one sitting, unless you do resistance exercise on a regular basis. It converts to glucose and can cause weight gain if you are sendentary. And DO use a sugar free protein drink. Try it for another three months without the progesterone and DHEA and the higher levels of BO and then add progesterone 14-30 during the fourth month. I would definitely give it another 3-4 months without DHEA and progesterone before concluding that it's hopeless. Fawn
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 13:41:24 GMT -5
From: Gïna Sent: 5/17/2003 6:48 PM
And to think the Bob told us toALWAYS take our higher dose of BO in the morning - since that's when our temps are the highest. His idea was that our temps are at their lowest during our sleep therefore the BO wouldn't be effectively used. And I always heard that pregnenolone should be taken in the AM, too. Since supposedly that's when our normal natural levels of preg and dhea are highest. But I think not taking those 2 things at all is best. Both gave me acne. Gina
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 13:41:44 GMT -5
From: fawnmarie42 Sent: 5/17/2003 11:33 PM
Gina - yes pregn. & DHEA cause acne - especially DHEA. Women should not take both together anyway - there's no need for it. Pregenenolone is a "relaxant" and when taken before bed aids in sleep and induces vivid dreaming. Unless one is a screaming A-type personality - best take it at night. After all - if natural levels are higher in the morning, why raise them? Pregnenolone can be converted to many different hormones - but for BE, it's best they are available when the growth and repair cycles is at it's highest - which is during sleep. If you take pregnenolone in the morning - it will be utilized and converted into progesterone to balance the 7-8 am cortisol surge. As long as you are NOT hypertensive, you want the cortisol to stimulate aromatase production in the breast tissue. As far as BO is concerned - it's the same. Growth and repair occur during sleep. Even if temperature is higher in the morning - you don't need that higher temperature to digest the BO - you need it for enzymatic efficiency. Estrogen also improves sleep quality - and higher estrogen levels at night more closely mimic those during early puberty. Fawn
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 13:42:48 GMT -5
From: Wenonae_ Sent: 5/18/2003 4:31 PM Fawn, What you're saying is at least backed by some sustenance. I was told by WB rep to take BO before 6:30p when estrogen levels are the highest, and like Bob alluded to, take higer doses in morning or afternoon. I'm open to what make sense. Someone on WB board was mentioning something similar about taking BO really late since body repairs itself at night and may be more effective, however, those were just that person's thoughts...it wasn't because they had such great results; they were just starting out. So, anyway, how late do you think we should we be taking last dose of BO? An hour before bedtime? An hour after eating dinner? I eat dinner between 7-10p, but I've usually taken BO by 7p....but protein sometimes I eat with dinner. Hmmm...... Maybe I'll just switch my higher dose to 7p and just do protein with dinner if we don't need higher temps for BO processing..... Wenonae
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 13:43:13 GMT -5
From: fawnmarie42 Sent: 5/18/2003 10:49 PM
Wenonae - What I'm thinking about is the high gonadatropin surges that occur at night during early puberty. This is also when growth hormone release is at it's highest - especially for adults. Also, the person asking was using 500 mgs pills - so ONE of her doses was going to have to be higher (double) to get in four separate doses. I personally use 2400, and split mine equally. If I had to take a highest dose - I would take it before bed to match the high LH and estrogen production that occurs in early puberty. When you take it depends on when you go to bed. You can take it right before bed - depends on when you can get that snack in. If you eat dinner around 7 - then have your BO and a small amount of protein around 10. (A spoon of peanut butter or handful of nuts or scoop of cottage cheese is good - or a bit of a protein shake.) I take mine right before bed, with pituitary gland extract and tyrosine. Fawn
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 13:43:57 GMT -5
From: Wenonae_ Sent: 5/19/2003 4:44 PM
Fawn, thanks for feedback O, btw, are you getting the PGE from your herbalist friend, too? I believe a product that's been bantered around is Solary tablets. Is that what you are taking, too, or is a true extract of another brand? Laterz
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 13:44:21 GMT -5
From: fawnmarie42 Sent: 5/19/2003 9:26 PM
I get PGE from Solaray - local health food store. I haven't hooked back up with NCA yet. She isn't an herbalist - I think she's an ND - not sure. She ran her own "brand" of supplements and my father worked for her small company for many years. I'm not sure I will get back with them at this point. I just ordered from Talon and just got my BO and titties are happy again. I also really like Solaray products. I like their Female Caps - which have both BO and bovine mammary in - and use them to "boost" my straight BO. Fawn
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Post by Moderator on Nov 11, 2003 13:44:53 GMT -5
From: Vicky5012 Sent: 5/20/2003 7:02 AM Thanks, Fawn I am adjusting my routine according to your advice. Wish me luck! Vic
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