Tara's routine

[tara8]

Hello everyone!
After some research (as well as adding and ramping up and down) this is what i'm taking now:
fenugreek (520mg)
x2 morning x1 afternoon x1 before bed

wild yam (400mg)
x2 morning x2 afternoon x2 before bed

saw palmetto (tincture)
x40 drops morning x40 drops afternoon x40 drops before bed

l-arginine (500)/l-ornithine(250)
x1 before bed

b complex multivitamin and magnesium
x1 after each lunch

I also took milk thistle for three days (after lunghtime, along with everything else) cause the tingling sensations stopped. I massage with fenugreek lotion morning and before bed (although i must admit i haven't been that consistent lately). Oh, and lately i use a progesterone cream also cause i think i'm estrogen dominant. I feel no more than tingling sensations at the mo so i'm probably doing something wrong. I was thinking of adding fennel and red clover at some point later...Plus i was thinking of purchasing tinctures for every herb instead of capsules. I'm quite confused now as to what is best (this is the difficult part, putting theory into practise). Aaaaaanyway, that's it! Any comments or suggestions are of course welcome

[Wahaika]

Hello Tara,

Do you have a stats page? It would be good to know where you are starting from. Your message in the newbee section says 34AA. This means you want to take it slow and keep the dosages down to keep from stalling.

Also, progesterone cream usually kills growth. You might want to try cutting that out for a while and see if it makes a difference. You can always use Vitex if estrogen dominance gets too out of hand.

Do you use any kind of carrier with fenugreek when massaging? If not, it might be a good idea then follow it with 15 minutes under a heated pad set to low.

Also, try one gram of borage oil just before bedtime.

Wahaika

[tara8]

Hello Wahaika, thanks for your reply! Yes, I am a 34AA. I started low but nothing was happening so i guess i got impatient.... Maybe i should try ramping down my wild yam? and maybe add just fennel for now. I do take borage oil, i forgot to mention it... 1 softgel in the morning (620) and one before bed. I'll try taking both before bedtime though, it sounds better.
Another thing: when i said progesterone cream i actually meant wild yam . So do you think i should stop this? I read somewhere that it can help growth.
I was wondering if diet is related to growth. I mean, i know that you're supposed to eat protein (which i do) but are carbs bad? I read this somewhere too. Some theory of it inhibiting prolactin.

[Wahaika]

I don't think the Wild Yam cream will do any harm. If you need Wild Yam, it could help. Try putting some fenugreek extract and Red Clover extract in your Wild Yam cream. The Wild Yam cream might be a good carrier for them if the Wild Yam cream absorbs easily into the skin.

Yep, I remember reading that too. But carbs also bring on insulin which stores fat - maybe not where you want it to go. As far as protein and carbs go, just eat a balanced diet and don't worry too much about it. Whatever you do, be consistent so that later when you want to tweak things, the diet will be something to consider and you will have some measure of control over it if it is already a stable factor.

[tara8]

Just realized i haven't given an answer on the fenugreek lotion subject. I simply put fenugreek in a lotion i wasn't really using and added some borage oil too, so nothing fancy. As of yesterday I'm combining the two lotions (wild yam and fenugreek) for massage and taking the borage oil before bedtime as you suggested. Hopefully this will bring about some change...
Seems like all the fat is stored around the stomach area now, although it's not very noticable. I don't know, maybe I'm just imagining it...

[Wahaika]

You might not be imaging it. But sometimes a little pudge goes with the process. It would be good to keep using borage in the massage even though also taking it internally at night.

[buffy]

There's pudge going along with my process... I actually feel the "growing pains" on the surface of my stomach, and I have put on a pad of fat there. It's disconcerting.

[tara8]

That sucks!!!Is there something we can do about it? Maybe massaging 1.5-2 hours after eating will cause more fat to be stored in the right places due to the increased blood circulation there? Or is that just naive?

[Wahaika]

Try using Yohimburn DF. Just don't use it too thick. Yohimburn seems to have a good track record for targeted fat reduction. If you start to address it with diet and exercise, just don't go too fast or it comes off of organs first.

Another thing you could try is to get some cinnamon extract, or make your own, and use it topically. Cinnamon has been shown to resensitize insulin receptors. Do it only for 30 days then stop. It is not a continuous change to make to your routine. It is something you do and then it is done - not ongoing.

[Novelia]

Another thing you could try is to get some cinnamon extract, or make your own, and use it topically. Cinnamon has been shown to resensitize insulin receptors. Do it only for 30 days then stop. It is not a continuous change to make to your routine. It is something you do and then it is done - not ongoing.[/quote]

This is very interesting! I'd like to more about this.

[buffy]

So you apply the cinnamon where you don't want fat??

I did get yohimburn. I've had it a week and have been using it on thighs first. My pants are getting too tight from gradual slacking in areas of exercise and eating. I'm back on track in both respects, there. Have lost about 5 pounds with low-carb eating and increased weight lifting, which might or might not have slowed boob growth. I only grew 1/8 inch, if anything, last month.

[Wahaika]

I stumbled onto this while researching ways to lower cholesterol. Remembering that the definition of Type II Diabetes is Insulin Resistance, which is the desensitization of insulin receptors, The effect is to lower triglycerides by raising the sensitivity of insulin receptors. i.e. get fat into the cell.

So, you could try this in NBE, but I don't know what the effect would be. The logic of taking it topically is the same as using Red Clover topically. Red Clover has a reputation of putting fat everywhere it's not wanted. This is when it is taken internally and gets distributed system wide. So, control where the fat goes by using it externally. At least the chances are better. As I remember, Hippychick used Red Clover and DMSO and grew really well. This is somewhat of the same logic - resensitizing receptors locally by applying it topically only. But it also depends on if the receptors need to be resensitized. So, the net effect could be zero. That is why it is something to try.

Here are some links - and links to links.

www.vrp.com/art/1397.asp

forum.lef.org/?f=35&m=17335&g=21822

Enjoy!

Wahaika

[tara8]

That's great info as always Wahaika! Many thanx! Why use the cinammon extract for only 30 days?Are you referring to the experiment of the first link?
Update on my routine: I've added red clover in the fenugreek lotion (just put the extract in it, right?) and now instead of capsules i'm taking 15dropsx3 times a day of fenugreek and wild yam tinctures (seperately) and 20dropsx3 a day saw palmetto. I don't know if it's ok but it seems to be working (still get tingling sensations). Everything else is the same.
Buffy a question on your answer to me in the spare fennel caps: is half a dropper full approximatetly 15 drops? And congrads on your weight loss, way to go!! Let me know how yohimburn works for you.

[Wahaika]

Yep, I was referring to the experiment in the first link because it had long lasting results after the experiment ended.

[buffy]

Tara, the suggested 1/2 ml serving from Greenbush is 1/2 a dropper. That is 30 drops (I just checked). I've been taking less, as I mentioned. I think I'll take your lead and up the saw palmetto, too.

Best of luck!