Greenbush Ramp-Up

[Wahaika]

hulagirl.

The first thing to do is dump Tobustan. It looks to me like it is made for someone who is estrogen dominant and has a slow thyroid. If this is not you, then it is a waste of time.

Adding progesterone cream is good for libido and other things, but bad for growth. Hold up on the progesterone cream for now. Try ramping up Saw Palmetto to 3 grams per day. (one gram per each meal)

Dryness: While men are microwaves, women are crockpots and that sometimes accounts for dryness. (unless you're talking about your sense of humor)

I started writing a reply, trying not to conflict with whatever Lucy's routine is telling you. But since I don't have a copy of it and don't know what it is, I think I'm just going to stick with what I know works.

Your massage should be taking no less than 15 minutes. What are the ingredients in the Vit E cream?

Since you are having growth pains after dropping everying on ovulation day, I think you are stalled but just over the line. I am going to attack this from the internals side then from the externals side (massage).

Plan A:
Stop everything for no less than 2 weeks and wait until the following cycle day 1 then start Lucy's routine, whatever it is, however she says to do it minus the Tobustan. Don't take anything for BE that is not listed in her routine.

Plan B:
Same as Plan A but instead of stopping, lower the dosages by half and continue until cycle day one. Then work out a ramp up to be at the dosages by mid cycle. Keep a written log of dosages and a measurement of your growing pains 1-10. If you have pains then they stop, then lower the dosages again to half and slowly ramp up to the dosage you had the highest growth pain level.

Plan C: (my favorite)
Stop everything and take a one cycle break. Then start madresiete's routine/Greenbush's Routine. Take it S-L-O-W! Pay attention to growth signs. You may respond at lower dosages.

No matter what the routine, I think a slow rampup, according to growth signs, on the herbs is what you should do.

Massage
I have never seen what you are using, but it looks OK, other than the carrier. It would be good to know what the ingredients are in the Vit E cream. If you are putting dry herbs into a cream and using it immediately, you are not giving the herbs enough time to steep into it. A better thing to do is get on the batter page and pick one of those, or put the herbs you are using into olive oil for a week or two before usage. Do it in bulk. You may want to get some DMSO to make sure the batter absorbs. You only need two drops per massage. You could use emu oil rather than olive if you wanted to bypass the DMSO. (just another option)

More questions:

How old are you?
How tall are you?
How active are you?
How many children have you had? Breastfed?
Are you gaining weight in other areas since starting BE?


Wahaika

[hulagirl]

I am 35 years old, 5'6", I think I am fairly active. I work two days a week, do the office work for my husband (we are self employed) and home school both of my children. I have 2 children, one I breastfed for 9 months and the second i breastfed for 3 months. I have gained about two pounds in the last 7 weeks but I am not really watching what I eat. I figured that breast is fat so I don't want to diet or anything. My stomach is a little bit more poochy than normal but I think because I ate like a pig this past weekend. I am going to switch back to olive oil for the massage because this Vitamin E lotion has alot of other things like fragrances and stuff. I use the extracts for massage not the dry herbs. Also how does your wife do 15 minutes of massage? I feel like my arms are going to fall off after 360 rotations. I think I will do the plan B for now and I will keep you updated on my progress. Thanks so much for all your help!

[baylee]

I am 57 years old, have had a complete hysterectomy. I also had silicone breast implants for 15 years & had them removed in 1996 due to leakage & complications. I finally have my health back but NO boobs (actually I'm an A cup) Do you think from your research that I could increase my bustline with herbs & massage? I took HRT for several years but went off that 3 years ago. I take nothing for hormones, only a fist full of vitamins a day. Since I had the implants removed I feel very self conscience about my bustline. Please if you know anything that will help, I'd appreciate it. Thank you so much.

[Wahaika]

hulagirl,

To manage the poochiness, try yohimburn. Use it sparingly. The internal herbs fill estrogen receptors wherever they are available - including the pooch.
www.yohimburn.com/

I am still a big proponent of DMSO drops at the end of massage. Here's a link to what to look for if you ever decide to use it.
www.ihealthtree.com/dmso-liquid-99-9--unfragranced-plast8oz.html

Also, there may be some that are trying emu oil as a carrier. Watch for any posts on that. I think it has great potential, maybe even better than DMSO.

Best wishes,

Wahaika
P.S. My wife's arms don't get tired ....

[Wahaika]

baylee,

As with everyone, hysterectomy or not, there are no guarantees. But there are a couple of examples of women with hysterectomies that had success using greenbush herbs: (I'm not a Greenbush commercial, it's what my wife uses and has had success so that is what I recommend)

Hysterectomy cases on Greenbush testimonials:

Now fills a B
www.greenbush.net/resinmon2and.html

Went from 31" to 34"
www.greenbush.net/newtes.html

Here is the Greenbush main site. Peruse it and see if it interests you:

---

Use my wife's routine at the top of this thread on the first page.

Get the 90 day kit from Greenbush.

Also get Fenugreek Extract, depending on if you want to use theirs, or make your own booby batter. Get a heated pad. Also get some DMSO. I will provide some links on how to use it, but in a nutshell, there can't be anything on your skin before the massage, including soap residue. I will edit in more info to this message[/u] later. These two sentences will disappear when I am finished adding info.

Take a good multivitamin with a B complex in it, and zinc. Also get 1 gram EPO capsules as you would be taking one of those three times per day. Same with Flax Seed oil. Get the kind without lignans as lignans are potent aromatase inhibitors.

Use the Fennel that comes in the kit to make an infusion to drink about twice per day.

Ramp up the herbs slowly, paying attention to growth signs.

Also, I'll need a stats page.

What is in the fist full of vitamins you are taking?

Also, (generally speaking, not for BE), you might want to get a copy of:
What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause
and
What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Fibroids: New Techniques and Therapies--Including Breakthrough Alternatives to Hysterectomy
for their information on HRT management and related subjects using natural means.


Wahaika

[baylee]

I take a multi vitamin called Maxi-Vision, has B's plus 30mg zinc, red yeast rice, Q-10, silicia, biotin, Ginko Biloba, Vit C (2000 mg), DHEA (25mg), Silymarin (300mg), Glucosamine-Chrondroitin, Acidophilus also an energy pill that has vitamins plus the following: rhodiola rosea extract, L-Tyrosine, Acetyl L-CArtenine, American Ginseng, Royal Jelly, L-Theanine, Q-10.

I am 57 years old, 5'5", 150#. My rib measures 29.5", bustline 34", band 34. Each breast measures 7.5 equally.

I can't find how to edit my profile, a few things are wrong on it.

I've been at my computer all day reading & feel very encouraged. I sure hope this works. Thanks a lot.

[idontmeasureup]

I'm a bit confused on the ramping up. I see that you ramp up from Day 1, but what do you do you "ramp down" towards the end of the cycle, then start over with the same Ramp up on Day 1 of the next cycle? I guess what I"m trying to figure out is once you've ramped up your dosages, do they stay the same thru the duration of the program before you take a break. Also, how long should you go before taking a break. 3 months? Thanks a bunch!

[Wahaika]

You ramp up once then stay at those dosages until you are ready to take a break, then ramp down to zero. Usually take breaks yearly. I would suggest not doing any routine longer than a year without a break. I would suggest a break length of 3 cycles.

I would not adjust any herbal routine sooner than 6 months. This time counts toward the 1 year.

[littlelamb]

Wahaika,

I have been at the following dosages for 25 days:

2300mg Fenugreek daily
1725mg Saw Palmetto daily
1725mg Wild Yam dailiy
3000mg EPO daily
3000mg FSO daily

My growth signs (aching, sharp pains, tingling, itching) have all but vanished. The strongest growth signs (significant soreness, heavy sharp pains, and mild itching) occurred immediately after I skipped a day at mid-cycle last month.

Note: I am again at mid-cycle and plan to skip another day soon. (please see my stats page for more current info)

Right now I don't have any sharp pains, tingling, or itching. I'm not taking my fennel tea as regularly as I should; it makes me feel sick. However, I'm very consistant with the massage/DMSO program.

Is my lack of growth signs OK? Should I back down or ramp up more?

Please advise.

[Wahaika]

I have a few questions.

1. Are you using this as your batter recipe? If not, what?
Booby Batter:
1/2 cup Olive Oil + 1/2 cup Fenugreek + 24 Borage Oil (one gram) caps. Steep for one week minimum before first use.

Get 2 (at least) 8oz empty containers such as dark glass bottles or empty hand lotion bottles. Steep with one while using the other.

2. Are you using 99% pure DMSO/1% water, or another dilution? Are you still diluting "70% below the neck and 50% above the shoulders." ?

3. Are you in the luteal phase? Lack of growth signs (itching/deep aches/ soreness) is common not to experience during luteal phase. Especially during the last week. If you are in the follicular phase, you could expect growth pains to increase until mid cycle or mid+2 days.

To know if you should back down or ramp up, you can test it above and below your current levels, but your lack of growth pains may not be related to the dosages, and may even be a normal part of the process. I need to know the answers before continuing. (I will probably suggest cycling DMSO but we'll see.)

Wahaika

[hulagirl]

I am having pains during the luteal phase, very strong every day but not hardly any during the follicular phase. After AF this time I didn't really lose any growth so I can't figure it out. I don't have any growing pains when I should and have them when I shouldn't. Go figure. Is there something wrong here?

[Wahaika]

Nope. Nothing wrong here. If you are keeping your growth then count your blessings. But are you measuring at mid cycle?

[littlelamb]

wahaika said:

I have a few questions.

1. Are you using this as your batter recipe? If not, what?
Booby Batter:
1/2 cup Olive Oil + 1/2 cup Fenugreek + 24 Borage Oil (one gram) caps. Steep for one week minimum before first use.

Get 2 (at least) 8oz empty containers such as dark glass bottles or empty hand lotion bottles. Steep with one while using the other.

2. Are you using 99% pure DMSO/1% water, or another dilution? Are you still diluting "70% below the neck and 50% above the shoulders." ?

3. Are you in the luteal phase? Lack of growth signs (itching/deep aches/ soreness) is common not to experience during luteal phase. Especially during the last week. If you are in the follicular phase, you could expect growth pains to increase until mid cycle or mid+2 days.

Answers:

1. Because I based my routine/recipe from yours, it is the same with the exception of Borage Oil. I am using 24 grams of Evening Primrose Oil instead.

2. I am using a 70/30% DMSO/water solution. However, before I mixed the DMSO with the water, it was 99.9%. I use 4 drops of the 70/30 on each side.

3. I'm not sure what the "luteal" and "follicular" phases are. I looked at a chart on this board and it didn't make sense. Is the follicular phase the last half of the cycle? My growth signs over the last two months have been something like this:

• Month 1, days 1-15 = mild growth signs
  
• Month 1, days 16-30 = strong growth signs
  
• Month 2, days 1-15 = strong growth signs
  
• Month 2, days 16-30 = mild growth signs
  

[Wahaika]

Follicular phase = first half of cycle. (F)Follicular/First
Luteal phase = last half of cycle. (L)Luteal/Last

You are currently taking internally:

2300mg Fenugreek daily
1725mg Saw Palmetto daily
1725mg Wild Yam dailiy
3000mg EPO daily
3000mg FSO daily

1) It is normal to feel little or no sensations during the second half (luteal phase) of the cycle. This is probably due to rising progesterone levels. You may experience this no matter what your dosages are. This process is a very slow, very up and down process. It is not abnormal to lose some or all of your growth occasionally then gain it all back, and then some, in the next month or two. Eveyone is different. Don't get flustered. Remember, even during puberty under the most optimal conditions, using the real hormones, it takes YEARS for the body to develop. This process is no different. Stay the course. You will do fine. The best thing, in my opinion, is to keep the growth pains going all the time. When you get to your goal, go another 1/2 cup and maintain it for a while before stopping, whenever you get to that point.

2) Since you are a B cup, you could ramp a little higher - to 2875mg of each herb. I would encourage that. Your body may have caught up with the dosages you are on and it is time to put a little more in.

3) You are diluting the DMSO to 70/30 and using 4 drops each side. This is equivalent of 2.8 drops of 99.9% each side. I know it sounds like more than 2 drops of undiluted DMSO when you total it up, but it doesn't work that way with dilutions. 4 parts of half strength is not the same as 2 parts of full strength. So, use 1 drop each side of 99% pure DMSO and spread it around real well. You can work up to 4 drops in time, but I do not recommend it at this time. Do not exceed 2. If you find that 2 drops of 99.9% pure DMSO to be too much, then continue to do the massage every day, but do the 99.9% pure DMSO only every other day or every two days. Use Saran wrap for the heat after the massage during the off days.

4) Another thing to try is to cycle your internals based on the estrogen cycle. I would not do this unless you are at least in month 6 (latter half) and nothing is working.

Beginning of week 4 of cycle:
Lower the dosages by half. Continue at this level until cycle day one. Then work out a ramp up to be at full dosages (2875mg each) by mid cycle. Remain at full dosages until week 4. Don't forget to skip "last day minus 2 weeks" cycle day, or mid cycle day.

If you are not keeping a log of some sort, start keeping a written log of dosages and a measurement of your growing pains 1-10. If you have pains then they stop, then lower the dosages again to half and slowly ramp up to the dosage you had the highest growth pain level. You may need to occasionally address the dosages in this way.

• Month 1, days 1-15 = mild growth signs
  
• Month 1, days 16-30 = strong growth signs
  
• Month 2, days 1-15 = strong growth signs
  
• Month 2, days 16-30 = mild growth signs
  

This would be great information to edit into your latest stats page.

Wahaika

[littlelamb]

wahaika said:

4) Another thing to try is to cycle your internals based on the estrogen cycle. I would not do this unless you are at least in month 6 (latter half) and nothing is working.

Beginning of week 4 of cycle:
Lower the dosages by half. Continue at this level until cycle day one. Then work out a ramp up to be at full dosages (2875mg each) by mid cycle. Remain at full dosages until week 4. Don't forget to skip "last day minus 2 weeks" cycle day, or mid cycle day.

If you are not keeping a log of some sort, start keeping a written log of dosages and a measurement of your growing pains 1-10. If you have pains then they stop, then lower the dosages again to half and slowly ramp up to the dosage you had the highest growth pain level. You may need to occasionally address the dosages in this way.

Thanks for the information. However, I have a few concerns/questions:

1. I can't tell when your "point 4" above ends. Did you have a summary below that?

2. I would like to start ramping up to 2875mg herbs daily. Should I start immediately, or wait until my next cycle?