help me!!

[pammy]

I'd like to go back to the beginning... Before BE I wore a 32B. Did I fill it? Nope. Did I try on an A? Nope, refused. Did that cause I was a B before pregnancy and was unwilling to give that up (hey, I'm taurus and stubborn as heck!). Would I have fit an A cup? Probably, we'll never know. So it is possible for someone who was a saggy A to grow to a D or more.

To the negatives, shoot I could list a bunch, too:

~TIME!! OMG, BE took so much time I didn't know what to do with myself when I got off of it. It was always taking up free time, always on the mind, unrelenting. No vacations. No sick days. I worked at it.
~Basically feeling like crap. 24/7. Moody. Bloated. Unreasonable. Couldn't stand to be around myself. I smelled funny. I hurt just about constantly.
~Yes, it sure did cost when you start tweaking and trying different things. The stuff you bought to begin with usually got thrown aside for the newest thing. Coulda went on a nice weekend trip for what it ended up costing.
~Hours and hours of researching and reading. I can't count the amount of time spent on BE. But hey, everyone needs a hobby, right?
~Patience. I have not. Anyone who went back to MTH's board remembers the impatience I had. Soooo not my virtue! No denying that one.
~Luck. Yup, plain ole luck on if what you're taking will work or not. Some got it early, some don't. Like place a bet on a roulette table where the odds are stacked against you.

But, even after all that, I'd still choose to at least TRY this route. You never know if it works unless you give it a good ole go at it. Yes, there's bad, if lucky then there's good. Think I'd rather have the hope that it may work and say that at least I tried. Better to have taken the chance than regret not trying.

Hats off to all the peep's who have or are now trying. Best of luck.

[Wahaika]

Hopeful,

Read up on the board, all the negatives Fawn and Pammy mentioned have been discussed in depth. Maybe we need an index.

Again, it is a matter of attitude and refusing to give up. The process can vary from months to years. A lot of it is just getting started and then adjusting with help from experience that you find here.

Again, the herbs work. The lower cups just need to start with lower dosages in order to avoid overpowering the lower number of estrogen receptors.

Sorry to see that you are beginning with SBS. You're probably in for some frustration if you are in a hurry. You might look into supplimenting it.

M97,

The question was "what success have you gained from using herbal enhancement" and it has been answered.

The facts are here as well as on the original board. Perhaps we need a table of contents where negatives are listed. I have another negative or two to add to the list.

1. Many women do not stick with any one routine long enough to get results before they either give up or jump to something else.

I am happy to say that this has leveled off a LOT in the past few months, with the exception of dowsing. I guess the numbers will show that in time. I have my doubts and reasons for doubting. I could be EXTREMELY negative about that but have chosen to keep my mouth shut.

I hope you dowsing ladies are keeping track of dosages and growth against time.

2. Negative attitude. This will torpedo anything in life no matter what it is. We don't all agree on a lot of things, not just in BE either. "Burning Protein" is just one example. (I'm right Fawn - HA! HA! HA!)

Where does that get me? Rather than argue the point endlessly and accuse anyone who disagrees with me of being negative, I decided to read the book that Fawn suggested and see if it changes my mind. (as soon as I get the $$)

Would you do me a favor? Post the routine you are using along with the usual stats and characteristics that you know we all look for. Maybe we can get that frown turned upside down.

Also - please take a look at Madredesiete's Routine on the routines page and start with the second message in that thread called "Theory" (I think) and let me know what you think. Does it look realistic? Does it look reasonable?

Thanks for your patience.

Wahaika

[marshall97]

Wahaika,
The following statements were made in the original post, too:

"I would like to exhaust all other options before I resort to going under the knife, but I don't want to waste time for no results.

I would love to hear some inspiring stories of success from these treatments, however for once the truth would be good!!"

And these statements led me to believe that this person was not opposed to surgery so I chose to comment to her. I do not post to all new members with negativity, but this poster seemed to want ALL points of view so I offered the "other" side. I suggested she try natural breast enlargement because one will never know until she tries. I also suggested she put a time limit on what she was willing to put herself through since obviously surgery IS a consideration for her. It is not a consideration for everyone. And, I think someone who leaves that option open needs to be realistic with the amount of time and money one spends WITHOUT achieving results. I think that makes sense. If you are not opposed to surgery, there is no reason to go for three years trying NBE with no results, spending more than you would on surgery anyway. If you are opposed to surgery--then do NBE forever, it doesn't matter because you don't have another choice for yourself. I just think people need to understand that NBE CAN be a lengthy (more than several years) and expensive process. AND I think people need to understand that, unlike surgery, there is NOT a 100% chance you will have larger breasts when it is all said and done (which is why I tried to give a perspective on growth with members starting with her own stats).
Again, I think I was trying to be helpful to someone who obviously did not count NBE as her only alternative to achieving larger breasts.
I rarely address new members. This one was an exception for me. She needs to know that she has to weigh the time, money, and risk involved with NBE against the cost and risk of surgery.
Sorry if everyone sees that as being negative.

[Wahaika]

M97, (sounds like an automatic weapon - I like it!)

I went back and reread your posts and I have to admit your posts are not as negative as I remembered them, but you do have a way of bating people.

I do have one observation:
>>"You have to admit that there is a very small percentage of women on this board (or any other for that matter) who grow two cup sizes or more on natural BE, and a very very small percentage of those women who do, start at less than an A cup. Those are the facts TODAY!"

I had this conversation with Bob a time or two. (by the way, I agree he was very generous with his time)

The problem is that the "everyone is different" clause is taken a little to the extreme. Since everyone is different, everyone also tries different routines. Add to that some keep changing their routines and you have a very unstable platform from which to make such a statement and then label it as fact.

If everyone on herbs did the same routine, you would have a better case and we would have better data to go by when perfecting "the routine." It's too bad, from that perspective, that there is no one routine.

Wahaika

[fawnmarie]

I don't think M97 said that no one grows with herbs.
Not rereading, but I recall she said that she hasn't heard of anyone starting with an "A" cup or smaller reaching a C/D.

That may be true, and there could be a number of reasons for that.

1) they get impatient.
2) something else needs to be addressed first
3) just NOT genetically inclined.

Hey, I know I'M not genetically inclined to have 34" hips or be 5'6", and no amount of anything (substance or pills or magic) is going to change that. So, I think its definitely possible that someone currently in an A isn't going to go much further than a B or baby C, and perhaps that's their genetics and the rest of their body matches that proportion.

And when talking about negatives - well you can go on and on about negative things people do to make this not work for them, but that is not the same as LIVING through it. And it is tumultuous and can be uncomfortable. Going through the same hormonal states as those during puberty is hell, because when you are 12 you don't have to show up for work everyday and keep a clear head, and balance your checkbook, and get your kids on bed or to school on time, or pay your taxes, or get your car looked at, or have to deal with a partner/spouse all hours of the day.

It's bad enough when you don't have a care in the world!

Going through it again with jobs and deadlines and grown up stuff to take care of is no picnic.

There are several negative aspects to NBE. It certainly isn't as dramatic as implants. It's emotionally draining. It's expensive, but not as expensive as surgery. It takes a while (I've been doing it off and on, in phases since 2000, and went from a B to a D, but it DID take 4 years, and there were a lot of breaks and time off in there).

Upsides - as opposed to surgery: Cheaper (really). Less painful (certainly). No scars (except for stretch marks if you're not careful). Not obvious or sudden. Generally DOESN'T cause immune disorders - though stressful on the body if adrenal health isn't addressed, most women using NBE don't end up with CFS/FMS or other immune disorders.

Downsides: Takes a long time. May not work at all. Takes a LOT of pill popping. Takes 4 years! (or more) Expensive if it DOESN"T work. Breasts achy almost constantly (though no where near as bad as surgery). Isn't as dramatic. May not give you the size your really want. You act like a 12 year old. Some of the stuff smells funny. It can make your butt huge!

Again, sort of 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

I think it's worth trying for 6 months. I think you REALLY need to know a lot about your body, and you should have a good knowledge of basic endocrinology. You should know the trend of your hormonal history. You should understand how your body reacts to different nutrients. You need to be able to ACCEPT needing to have a VERY different life than the one you are used to. One that includes getting a lot of sleep and a lot of nutrition.

As well as looking at it sort of like an eating disorder, on the positive slant, it's also a lot like body building. You need to adjust your lifestyle around your nutritional and health needs. You need to increase/balance the right kinds of hormones (in our case estrogen, maybe progesterone - in body builders it's testosterone and cortisol), you need to increase growth hormone. You need to sleep like you are growing. You need to eat like you are growing. You need to work the supporting muscles and have a positive attitude and be dedicated.

It's also very much like body building.

In this case, you need to accept that it may not work. The worse that can happen after 6 months, if you do it right, is that you will be very healthy and fit and can STILL get implants if you want.


Fawn

[warriorqueen]

Fawn's totally right. It's a long-term process. I've been at it around 3yrs - lots of breaks and ups and downs, but my boobs have definitely improved by about one cup size, and seem to be filling out better since I seriously got my new routine going. But I have to say, my mood and my cellulite and my weight have been more or less stable. I've got a bit more cellulite than I had, but I'm working on it. I was excited about BE in the beginning, then frustrated, then depressed and pissed. Now I do it with patience and don't measure every week. My periods are easier now (i started a new routine about 6wks ago) which is good, and my hair is great thanks to saw palmetto. Like I said in another post, I've enjoyed getting to know more about my body and becoming more aware of it. And the board is a great source of info and support in many different areas. It's nice to feel part of a big experiment and be around as people discover new factors that help some of us get a bit closer to our goals. It's been frustrating, costly, but like Pammy I'm stubborn and refuse to give up until I really feel I've exhausted all avenues.

WQ