I'm new with BO

[tiny]

Hi everyone, I have been using BO for a little over a month now with no results. 2400 mg/day. How much longer should I try before giving up? I took greenbush herbs religiously for 6 months and did everything by the book, (massage, etc.) with zero results so I thought I might be better suited for BO... but, I guess not... ?

[Wenonae]

Extra estrogen, is not always what's needed.

How did u rate on Dr. Lee's hormone test?
[ftp]http://www.johnleemd.net/forms/hb_test.html[/ftp]

Are you on a protein-filling diet? A number of factors to look into.

Be specific about ur total current regime and also tell us what your results are. I'm sure we'll have suggestions.

[mominator]

I am NOT a BO expert by any means. but the first thing I noticed is you might be a bit high, have you tried going down to 1500. I think that's the dosage or is it 1600. See I am not a BO expert. But I think Wen is right, more estrogen does not mean any success. Each body is different with a different natural balance of hormones.

Try the lower dose see what happens. Are you using a progesterone blocker such as damiana or oregano? Also massages are VERY important in a BE regiment.

[fawnmarie]

For some body types, it takes at least 3 months for things to kick in.

Ramp down to 1800 for a while, and DO give it three months.

You might want to try adding saw palmetto, but it's too soon for upping your BO dose.

[tiny]

Thank you all for your input. I will go ahead and reduce my BO to 1800 mg and wait. I do believe that I am consuming enough protein-- I try to get 75 grams a day but it's never less than 50. It's hard for me b/c I am allergic to milk and soy... so I have to eat a lot of meat and eggs and rice protein powder shakes. I am confused about something, though-- I thought BO was the same as Wonderbreast, but after looking through their website I realized that they say Wonderbreast is a progesterone-based regimen (rather than estrogen-based)... so, why do you guys refer to BO as estrogen? And Fawn, what would saw palmetto do? Hope everybody had a great Thanksgiving yesterday!

[tiny]

Oh, I forgot to say that, according to Dr. Lee's test, I am estrogen deficient, progesterone deficient, and estrogen dominant.... I have no idea how to interpret these results... Thanks in advance for any input!

[mominator]

Sounds like you are very progesterone deficient. How are your periods? Do you cramp severly, heavy bleeding, prolonged periods?

Sorry, more questions, but in order to figure out a regiment, need to see where to start.

[anita22179]

hi tiny,
wow you sound just like me! i am oestrogen def, progesterone def and also oestrogen dominant, which makes me very deficient in prog, so i have heavy, crampy periods with proloned cycles of 35 days , sometimes more. i did 3 mths each of SBS and brobust, only mild tingling , no results. then i did 2 mths of BO, one mth 2400mg, 1 mth 1800 mg, with prog 14-28 days, SP 4800 mg, pregnenolone 50 mg and massages.i got mild tingles and lumps in breast which were signs that i was on too much oestrogen.(actually it wasnt too much by itself as i am already oestrogen def, but it meant even that much BO was too much for my already prog. def body to handle, you see BE needs a delicate balance bet your oestrogen and progesterone). so i am now on a 2 mths break using only progesterone and pregnenolone for my body to reset and waiting for other supplements to arrive. maybe we can work out a routine together? we seem to have the same hormonal abnormalities! what works for one of us might work for the other too, and we both are on BO!i'd say watch out for lumps, thats a sign that you are on too much oestrogen for your progesterone def. body to handle.

[Wenonae]

Tiny-

WB's site isn't gospel at all. In fact, if you ever try to question a rep...you'll find that they are not knowledgeable at all. In addition, there is no research posted or referenced to show that. All info collected by BEB seems to show/prove it's very estrogenic in results, if not in composition.

WB's site turned me onto trying BO..but, I've since used other types of BO, and I have found they have all reacted similartly in me.

[tiny]

Thanks everyone. My periods are not that bad actually, I get bloating but I don't cramp very often. They come once every 3 weeks and last about 5 days, sometimes barely 6, but the bleeding isn't super heavy. I get really bad PMS, though, and for this reason I have just started taking b/c pills again (Alesse)... I am super sensitive to b/c pills and they all make me gain weight and feel depressed, (although they help with PMS), Allesse for me has minimal side-effects, (depression, weight gain). I don't know if I am progesterone deficient because I have always reacted horribly to pills with high progesterone proportions. Hmm.... So, Wenonae, are you saying that there is no such distinguing between WB's so-called "progesterone-based" BE and estrogen-based BE? Also, how important is it to spread out my BO dosing throughout the day? Is 2 doses a day better than taking it all at once, for example? What does saw palmetto do?

[Wenonae]

tiny said:

Hmm.... So, Wenonae, are you saying that there is no such distinguing between WB's so-called "progesterone-based" BE and estrogen-based BE? Also, how important is it to spread out my BO dosing throughout the day? Is 2 doses a day better than taking it all at once, for example? What does saw palmetto do?

Tiny,
I've found that taking doses per Fawn's suggestion is working out well. Actually, I'm taking my doses from late afternoon to late nite(like 12p noon to 12a). The thought behind spreading doses out it to have a certain steady 'level' in the system.

There's been all this recent talk about HGH and IGF in the body. HGH turns to IGF in the liver. HGH (human growth hormone) is naturally higher in adults at nite, during sleep. So, to take advantage of that, I try to make sure my largest dose is 1-2 hoursbefore I go to sleep with a small protein snack or protein-laced meal. I try to avoid carbs, since when it breaks down, it can reduce the levels of HGH which would normally rise.

Saw Palmetto is an herb which natrually blocks DHT androgens in the body. Androgens are a testosterone. Obviously, we're trying to take the 'man' factor out of our systems, so it's a value-add. It's also really good for men's prostates and slowing general body hair growth. For those with PCOS, one should take 4-5g's..for those without this concern, 2-3g's should be enough. However, too much of SP, u can lose libiido or lower testosterone and lose muscle strength...generally 2-3g's should do the trick.

Hope that's somethnig to chew on. More questions..come on back.

[Wenonae]

tiny said:

Thanks everyone. My periods are not that bad actually, I get bloating but I don't cramp very often. They come once every 3 weeks and last about 5 days, sometimes barely 6, but the bleeding isn't super heavy. I get really bad PMS, though, and for this reason I have just started taking b/c pills again (Alesse)...

So per Dr. Lee's profile of u, BO may be your route. Since you had PMS and short cycles, let's see what happens while on Alesse. It may behoove u to have a little more progestin in ur system.

If 1800mg BO and 2g's of SP, massages with boobie batter and dry massages don't produce tingles or aches, especially in the first half of your cycle, then there's lots of other options to consider.

Keep us 'abreast' of devlopments.

For boobie batter suggestions, see the 'Routines' section.

[Wenonae]

tiny said:

Hi everyone, I have been using BO for a little over a month now with no results. 2400 mg/day. How much longer should I try before giving up? I took greenbush herbs religiously for 6 months and did everything by the book, (massage, etc.) with zero results so I thought I might be better suited for BO... but, I guess not... ?

There's been some stirring up of whether after 3 months, will NBE work for u, if u don't have appropriate IGF levels in ur system. Stay tuned. BEB's digging into it.

Really, u already have 'ideal' conditions for growth..it should only take some estrogen and low SP to get u going well.

[fawnmarie]

There's a lot to consider when deciding how long to give it before you decide it doesn't work...

Body type?
Gynecological history?
Nutrition?

The pituitary (visionary) body types just take longer, and shouldn't even consider giving up before six months have passed.

I'd like to do a bit of a hormone level check list myself. Although I think Doc Lee was great, the online questionnaire leads people to believe that there may be something wrong with them, when their isn't.

If you marked more than 3-4 items in a category, then it may be a problem. If the condition only existing during certain times of the month, then it isn't a chronic condition.

If you only marked one or two - it ain't a problem. You're normal.

However - a body type check is in order, 3-4 months should be given for other body types, 6-8 months for pituitary types.

And yes - age is a factor.

[Wenonae]

Here's an interesting summary of how body types responded in a small pooled survey MSN BEB did some months back.

I'm visionary..and yes, it's taken quite a while for things to really kick off, even though I grew very fast initially.

Here's the link for body type...
[ftp]http://www.yourbodytype.com/index.cfm?CFID=5761108&CFTOKEN=42446108[/ftp]

Here's the summary of our results..just a guide, but interesting nonetheless.
[ftp]http://groups.msn.com/BEBoard/surveyresults.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=3973&LastModified=4675421654358627688[/ftp]

Enjoy!