New here.

[Suze]

Hi.

My name's Suzanne and I've been messing with herbs for quite a long time to treat most common ailments. I never happened to think one could try to improve breat size until I inadvertently read a piece of spam advertising it.
After checking what herbal enhancement was about and being dazed at the amount they charge for it, I started researching to see if I could try with my own means and among other sites, I came upon this one. I've read quite a few past threads, and I have some questions for you all since you are way more experienced than I am.

First, I could find no mention of sage or clarry, which surprised me since its side-effects should be quite interesting to work toward our goal. Does this mean you already tried long ago and it didn't work?
Second and last for now, should I be working on raising my estrogen levels only, or is rising my prolactinemia and coping with all nasty side-effects an interesting option?
Thanks in advance for sharing.

[Wenonae]

Hi, Suzanne...Welcome!

There are estrogenic herbs which lots of board members use, however, the ones you've mentioned..I've never heard of anyone trying or reporting back from.

Take a peek at Fawn's site....it lists common ones used with the most success.

[ftp]www.botanicalbeautylab.com[/ftp]

Also, to acesss where ur hormones are, you can take Dr. Lee's test. Feedback ur test results, and someone will confirm per that profile which levels u may need to raise. Some need only raise estrogen levels...some need to both raise estrogen and lower progesterone...we shall see. [ftp]http://www.johnleemd.net/forms/hb_test.html[/ftp]

Welcome again!

[mominator]

[glow=red,2,300]Welcome to the Board! ;D[/glow]

Hi Suzanne,
If you wouldn't mind sharing the information you have found regarding sage and clarry. A web site or quote that you have discovered. This may help some of our people who are really struggling.

The commercial blends are quite expensive, but have you considered doing individual's. I personally use Greenbush Enhancement Caps, for about $24.00 monthly. What I really like with this company is Greenbush is a Herbal company, not a "breast enhancement", so you know you are getting what you ordered and NO FILLERS! You know the exact milligrams, etc.

Again! Welcome to the Board and Happy Growin'

[Suze]

I'm not even considering trying the commercial products. I like to know what I'm taking and always work from raw herbs when I need to treat ailments, unless I can't grow or buy them. If so, I settle with individual herb pills.
Sage (salvia officinale) and Clarry (Salvia sclarea) seem both interesting estrogen-like sources, since they are potent enough to cut milk flow. I sometimes use sage tea when I'm short of anti-perspirant, very effective to cut sweating too. And I have noted what it does to my breasts when I do, so I'll include clarry in my plan.
Sage may be easier to find. There is more thuyone in it, which is mildly neurotoxic, though.

Other herbs I am most probaly going to use are:
-Fennel and aniseed for dianethole content. Unfortunately, essential oils of both are controlled around here (thanks to the industrial brewers lobby) so I'll have to use tinctures, sublingual.
-Alfalfa, if side-effects aren't too bothering in the long run. I really need to lower my progesterone level, and alfalfa seems to be a good way to limit LH secretion.
-Black cohosh, because I already have some harvested.
-Panax ginseng, for both the estrogenic and mind stimulant effects. Anethole in fennel and aniseed cuts the dopamine flow, and I don't want my mood to go down under.
-Saw palmetto and licorice. First one to make sure testosterone isn't converted to DHT, second to increase CYP450 activity and get more endogenous estradiol from testosterone.
All of those internally.
I will also work on a cream to make sure my skin doesn't suffer too much.
The oily fraction will be made of evening primrose, borage, macadamia and olive oil. I will add comfrey, ivy (hedera helix, not poison ivy), arnica, saint john's wort, burdock and calendula in it for the skin reinforcement effects (collagen and vascularisation) and most probably fennel tincture.
I'm also pretty certain I will add cabbage and linseed to my diet as well as alfalfa and fenugreek sprouts.

Do think this should work? And which amounts of these are you taking if any? I'll probably see quickly how to tweak when I really start...

[Wenonae]

OMG! You sure do have a detailed knowledge of herbs.

As Momi's motto has been of late..really, more is not better. Your regime seems the highest tweaked thing I've ever seen...very interesting.

Honestly, just my layman's knowledge of herbs since being on BEB, you prolly don't need HALF of what you're proposing.

Since growing boobies of 1-2 cups sizes larger is going take about 6-12 months ANYWAY, all that pill-swallowing may just drive anyone nuts.

Were I u, I'd simplify/limit my basic starting regime of what you've posted to:
fennel
saw palmetto
licorice

The black cohosh has given MANY ladies on BEB problems...nasty stuff. The ginseng and alfalfa are overkill for BEB, but fine for health.

As far as your intended boobie batter...throw in estrogeinc ticatures made from fenugreek or R/C. The oils are fine..but it'll mostly be the massaging action that helps it out..versus having millions of things in it.
Simplest Olive oil, R/C and fenugreek extract, with peppermint oil for the fenugreek smell.

If you're only trying to firm things up..you're outlook is about 3 months, in which case, you can do all that you've prescribed above and still get there without breaking the bank.

[Suze]

I think you're right on many points. Especially on my complicating things. I guess it's just my spending too much time in the garden and kitchen.
I won't be swallowing pills, though, except for saw palmetto, which I can't neither grow here nor buy raw (not to mention the active principles are in the oily phase and hard to extract, have to eat it crushed and whole.)
Else, most of what I'm planning to prepare are either teas, herbal wines or tincture drops under the tongue. Much more pleasant than pills. And yes, all of this is much easier and cheaper when you grow your herbs and prepare your materia yourself. All you need is a little will to learn and time to invest.

I have to admit I have more than a few doubts about black cohosh, but since I have harvested a couple years of dried root and prepared the tincture, I might as well give it a try instead of keeping it "just in case".

As for the cream, it's more of a skin thing than a boob thing. It's only my old personal "spotless" night cream for face and body, tweaked with fennel. Quite potent, but it works wonders for me for nearly anything, from zits to bruises, insect bites and sun burn. I may post the recipe if anyone is interested.
And thanks so much for reminding me of red clover. I have a nice stash of dried flowers I can use.

[mominator]

I would be very interested in that recipe! Post in "health" (we need some stuff in there )

Glad you agree with Wen. One thing I might warn you of...be very watchful of your tempetatures. Excess estrogen can effect your thyroid causing hypothyroid. I have this experience, I more than likely was hypothyroid before BE...really came to light when I tweaked my routine. The cabbage is a definite no-no if you are hypothyroid. Believe me I know...I just went through a bout of super low temps due to a Cole Slaw addiction! It had BACON BITS! How could I resist?

There are quite a few posts regarding thyroid and BE.

But the rest looks good. For dosages, start at 500mg daily., ramp up from there. Stick at about 1.5-2.0 for at least 2 mos, see if you get any reactions. Another great source for dosages & what people are taking is in "Routines".

Thanks for you information...very informative!

[fawnmarie]

Suze -

The cream sounds great - and you shouldn't have too much trouble with skin damage with the comfrey.

BTW - if you go through my website at www.BotanicalBeautyLab.com and click on a link to Mountain Rose Herbs, you'll find really good prices on herbs you can't grow where you live. They have saw palmetto, cut & sifted, for $5 a pound right now. They also have some excellent carrier oils - macademia, aloe gel, and even olive-extracted squalene.

I DO live where you can grow sp, but nothing else. JEEZ, I hate Florida - I used to grow my own BC back in Ohio. Nothing grows well here!

Anyway - watch the black cohash, because it limits surges of LH - which isn't exactly what we want. It reduces LH surges during menopause which in turn relieves hot flashes, but really isn't a phytoestrogen. Besides - one of the hallmarks of the sexual development during puberty IS increased frequency and intensity of LH surges.

As for alfalfa - I'm not sure of it's exact laboratory properties, but it does seem to work as a progesterone agonist - produces increases in appetite and metabolism, bone density and muscle density and is anti-diuretic. It also can affect menstrual periods. If you are over 30, have had a baby, you may want to continue it.

Licorice is great for BE, and I agree that ginseng is an overkill. Kudzu might be useful if you can get it.

BTW - cutting the dopamine will increase prolactin, which will help in BE efforts. Unfortunately, a hormonal course of BE can and does effect mood. Remember what a wreck you were when you were 11-12-13? Well, be prepared to go through it again!

Fawn

[Suze]

I'm starting to see some results: more firmness and swollen teats. I'll probably have to buy new bras within a couple months, since my 85A was already kind of tight before I started. I'll probably have to decrease some of the doses as I don't want any scars. What pleases me less is that I'll probably have to buy new bottoms too. I wanted to replace only the *top* part of my wardrobe.

BTW, thanks for the offer, but overseas shipping very quickly gets expensive. Overall, it would probably cost me more than the extract pills I can buy here.
I've never had a baby (and I don't want any), so even permanent infertility isn't an issue for me.
Cutting down LH is exactly why I planned using cimicifuga and alfalfa (french phytotherapists consider it as a central antigonadotrophic, specific to LH). They will for sure decrease my progesteron levels, and hopefully my androgen levels somewhat (all that hair must come from somewhere, though it might just be some of my mediterranean blood).

Ginseng is a bit over the top. I wouldn't use it if I couldn't get relatively cheap raw root. It's probably not even worth considering in the USA, especially since controls are loose and so many herbal products are adulterated or misidentified there (and its price certainly makes ginseng is a tempting target for adulteration)

I've found a great way to take aniseed and licorice: alcohol-free pastis. Comes in 1l bottles for about $3 (rough conversion), with 2% anis extract and 0.5% licorice extract, sugar-free. A nice, casual and inconspicuous drink. Ordinary pastis could also be an option, except it's much more expensive and 45% alcohol.

I'm still looking into herbs that are supposed to be anti-dopaminergic. Not a problem since I'm *still* a wreck.