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Post by Ruderico on Nov 14, 2004 12:43:15 GMT -5
What is so scary about paying your taxes?!! It's like Americans only want to sit on their own money and would rather DIE than give some of it to their legitimate gouvernment!! I mean, my father is a doctor (so he makes quite some money) and therefore he he pays more taxes than a cleaning lady, but why is that a problem? My father still makes a lot more money than her and is still able to do whatever he wants with the rest of his money. He don't care about paying more taxes! Nobody does in Holland accually. And I don't see why anyone should. I mean, who wants poverty and the resulting crime rate you get from it??!! But the really funny thing is: you Americans freak out when someone talks about "CRIME", "CRIMINALS" and "SECURITY"; but really, it is nothing compared to the reaction you get from the word "TAX" or "TAXES". That is so weird, cuz you can only effectively beat criminality if you raise the taxes (especially on the rich), so you can increase overall health care, education and employment!! Don't forget: if you want a good economie, good health care, less crime, good police etc., YOU NEED TO PAY TAXES, SO YOUR GOUVERNMENT CAN DO HIS JOB!! BTW: If Republicans are good Christians ( ), why don't they care about the poor? In Holland the Christian party is conservative, but finds beating poverty really important.
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Post by Ruderico on Nov 14, 2004 14:07:34 GMT -5
@ wahaika:
- I thought the USA was a democratic Republic?! (that means it IS a democracy but is shaped in a federational system, so the USA is both a democracy and a Republic.)
- George Bush claimed several times on tv that he was God's spokesman and that he was send by God to do His will. I find that disturbing and insulting towards my religion (who says God is on Bush' side? Who says God wants this war? Who says God isn't angry with Bush for using His name?)
- I read that several investigations (including a gouvernmental investigation) pointed out that there was NO CONNECTION between Al Quada and Saddam Hussein. Also, untill today, NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION HAVE BEEN FOUND.
So that would make it clear that Bush either lied about the danger of Iraq, OR he didn't investigate enough and think the whole thing through before he made this important decision.
Either way, he made a mistake.
So there was no urgent reason for invading Iraq. I understand a lot of emotional arguments like freeing a people from a cruel dictator apply for some people, but if America wants to attack every country in this world that has a dictator, they have to declare war to 3/4 of this world.
Talking about the argument of having weapons of mass destruction, the US owns the most - and probably the most destructive - weapons of this world and also creates them in the greatest secrecy.
Now, is it right for the rest of the world to create a coalition of the willing against America? Just because America could use these weapons against us? (Accually, we know America will if we don't do what it wants nowadays. Bush even said he was going to invade Holland if an American soldier was led to the International Court of Justice*)
I would say, just stick to the hard facts and don't jump recklessy in a matter of life-and-death (war!!), before you know what you are getting yourself and others into. I mean, you have got to be really sure if you put the lives of so many people in jeopardy!!
- Why do you give a d**n if two gays want to get married? Just let them be happy if they want to, what difference does it make to your personal lives? I mean,
*If GOD doesn't like it, they won't go to heaven. Why would you give a d*mn if they go to heaven or not. You can still go there!
*If YOU don't like it, don't be at their wedding, and don't sign their marriage papers (if you happen to be a registration officer). You don't have to get bother by it if you don't want to, you know.
That's how I think about it. I don't know if God approuves it or not, but I don't claim to be a person who has all the answers in my pocket and I don't think anyone should claim something like that. "Live and let live"!!
BTW: In Holland we already have legalized gay marriage and two teachers of my (Christian!) high school were finally able to marry. Everybody wished them and their husbands good luck, "even" our Christian school board. I don't see what is wrong with a gay marriage, and if you do have objections, then you can choose as a priest (etc) or a registration officer not to do it and let somebody else marry them.
*The International Court of Justice is in The Hague, The Netherlands
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Post by fawnmarie on Nov 14, 2004 18:38:22 GMT -5
Every time I think of Bush getting re-elected, I can't help thinking of that book "A Handmaid's Tale".
Honestly, I'd move to Canada (or Holland), if I didn't feel that I have a duty to be here and do whatever I can as a citizen (a less proud one lately) to make sure things don't get out of hand.
Well, people - keep voting, keep writing your Senators and congress people.
Fawn
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Post by Tarzanna77 on Nov 14, 2004 19:58:27 GMT -5
I guess it depends on who you think should be in charge of your life and finances. It is not the government's responsibility to provide me with health care, HIGHER education OR employment. And I don't want it to be. As it is, they provide piss-poor services anyway due to mis-management of funds and the dominance of HMOs. And I don't think them TAKING AWAY MORE of my money in the form of taxes to this BROKEN system is going to help! Social Security is a flipping JOKE. It certainly WILL NOT be around when I am old enough to collect. I feel it was one of the WORST ideas in the history of this country. Personally I DO NOT think it is fair for a SMALLER percentage of the population (ie. the rich) to have to shoulder a LARGER portion of the economy's debt in the form of taxes. Which, once you hit a certain income level, Your Tax % goes up! No what we need is our governement to do the job it is supposed to and stay the hell out of our personal lives. Regarding CRIME: If the government KILLED more of the criminals, our jails wouldn't be overcrowded & we wouldn't be letting dangerous people BACK out into the world. And if our Judicial system wassn't such a load of CRAP more criminals would be DEAD to start with. The higher the penalty for such crimes, the fewer criminals we would have. But here in America, we have so many "bleeding hearts" that our Judicial system can't do it's job anymore! "EVERYONE has rights" - they say. BULL! If you KILLED or RAPED someone, you have forfeight any rights in my book & DESERVE TO DIE. These are just my opinions -- Jane
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Post by fawnmarie on Nov 14, 2004 22:05:39 GMT -5
How about a flat tax? I used to feel a lot like that too, and then I got "religion" and it taught me compassion for my fellow beings - not so much for their sake, but for the sake of my own heart, soul and disposition. And I came to the realization that my capacity for generosity to others was more of a reflection on me than on others.
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Post by Ruderico on Nov 15, 2004 9:41:23 GMT -5
I guess it depends on who you think should be in charge of your life and finances. It is not the government's responsibility to provide me with health care, HIGHER education OR employment. And I don't want it to be. As it is, they provide piss-poor services anyway due to mis-management of funds and the dominance of HMOs. And I don't think them TAKING AWAY MORE of my money in the form of taxes to this BROKEN system is going to help! Social Security is a flipping JOKE. It certainly WILL NOT be around when I am old enough to collect. I feel it was one of the WORST ideas in the history of this country. Personally I DO NOT think it is fair for a SMALLER percentage of the population (ie. the rich) to have to shoulder a LARGER portion of the economy's debt in the form of taxes. Which, once you hit a certain income level, Your Tax % goes up! Haha, I guess I touched a sensitive spot, didn't I? But maybe you should consider the fact that your Social Security never got the funds it needed from it's population, to make it WORK. I'm sure Dutch people pay A LOT MORE taxes than you Americans, but like I said, nobody is really bothered too much by it. (Of course, nobody is cheering when we have to pay taxes, but the general thought is: "as a good citizen you pay your taxes") You know why? Because we know, that when we're SICK, UNEMPLOYED or OLD, we're being taken care of, no matter what. NOBODY has to worry that when you're doctor tells you that you have cancer, you might not be able to pay for the chemo or CAT-scans and that you'll die just because you're poor. And that makes sense, doesn't it? I mean, it would be unfair (and really un-Christian!!) if good health care would be something priviliged to rich people, and that being poor means your chances of surviving illness are being severely limited!
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Post by Ruderico on Nov 15, 2004 10:09:24 GMT -5
Regarding CRIME: If the government KILLED more of the criminals, our jails wouldn't be overcrowded & we wouldn't be letting dangerous people BACK out into the world. And if our Judicial system wassn't such a load of CRAP more criminals would be DEAD to start with. The higher the penalty for such crimes, the fewer criminals we would have. But here in America, we have so many "bleeding hearts" that our Judicial system can't do it's job anymore! "EVERYONE has rights" - they say. BULL! If you KILLED or RAPED someone, you have forfeight any rights in my book & DESERVE TO DIE. These are just my opinions -- Jane Having homocidal tendacy yourself? I mean, you don't mind putting others to death do you? ;D And the funny thing is: America has the highest homocide rates of the entire world, but is also on the top list of countries with the highest rates of executed dealth penalties. Makes you wonder if death penalty is really the answer to crime... Doesn't it...? Maybe it would be more effective to get to the bottom of the causes and circumstances for homocidal behavior and try to take away some of the crucial elements, like allowing everybody to have a gun and reducing the poverty level in ghetto's. I still find it amazing that every nut can have a gun in America... But hey, I was born in The Netherlands and I find legalizing weed, abortion and gay marriages not a problem at all and still see myself as religious...maybe that's what's wrong with me, I dunno
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Post by fawnmarie on Nov 15, 2004 10:32:29 GMT -5
Ruderico -
I was born in the US and I see it as normal, too. And I consider myself religious, as well, though I am not a Christian (Buddhist).
BTW - Libertarians are for the legalization of marijuana.
Fawn
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Post by Ruderico on Nov 15, 2004 10:45:45 GMT -5
@fawn: But I guess you are going to wait a LONG time for that to happen in America!! ;D/ But how do you feel about death penalty? Do you think people have the right to put prisoners to death? Talking about myself: I'm against death penalty, because I think one is playing God if he's making decisions about whether someone should live or die. In my opinion: only God (or whatever higher being) makes that kind of decision, as human beings we can only decide to protect our community by locking someone up (in some cases for life). BTW: What did you mean with "everytime I think about Bush being re-elected I think about 'The Handmaid's Tale' "? Is that a tale every American knows?
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Post by fawnmarie on Nov 15, 2004 12:07:51 GMT -5
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Post by Wenonae on Nov 15, 2004 12:39:00 GMT -5
I totally believe that gay people are 'born' that way. No way in the world would someone perpetuate that unless something is mentally and physically telling them that is they way to be. I also think if we were more 'educated', then we would have less problem with filling the jails, and there would be no need for killing. Those who think that killing fixes the problem, to me can only win battels, not a war. Those who 'know' a better way, are more apt to explore those options. I don't feel that goverment should run everything, but working with what we have, they are in the best position to enable us to help ourselves. While they may be inefficient, one person can make a difference. It's put up or shut-up. I totally support medicinal marijuana. Marijuana, while damaging for recreational uses, still is better than regular tobacco. The history of its illegatization is very interesting. All deals with politics. Anyways, as the polls showed, the places where the poeple are the most 'educated' are also the places who believe, support or understand the above comments. In general, America is more conservative and in my opinion less wordly educated. I mean, there are still people who think we should have everyone in the world speak English, when in fact, it would behoove us culturally if we learned another language. Now docs are proving that those who at least learn another language, have improved mental capacity. It's just all a dumb crap loop.
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Post by Tarzanna77 on Nov 15, 2004 16:15:15 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind killing a person who killed someone I love. No I wouldn't one little bit. It is not JUST the death penalty that needs to be enforced more. I am all for an eye for an eye, as the Christians like to say. You steal, cut off your hand, you rape... well you get the idea. Kill 'em all and let GOD sort 'em out. I don't like guns, I don't personally own one. HOWEVER CRIMINALS do get guns no matter whether they are illegal or not. And I think that it is not fair to take away people's right to defend themselves in that manner. I don't have a problem with gay marriage. Gays didn't ruin marriage for us. The rampant DIVORCE rate did. I also think if weed is illegal, then alcohol should be too. How's that for an opinion? Legalized alcohol kills MORE people than weed does any day! I don't do either, so it doesn't really affect me either way. As far as hitting a nerve is concerned... We each have our own opinions on these issues. To each his own. --Jane
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Post by Wenonae on Nov 15, 2004 16:19:35 GMT -5
My FAV Cabinet MEMBER submitted his resignation today- Colin Powell (His accomplishments were flawless and awe-inspiring until his dealings with Bush admin.). This is SIXTH[/size] of 15 members that have resigned since good ole George W. got re-elected
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Post by fawnmarie on Nov 16, 2004 7:58:35 GMT -5
I've been a Colin Powell fan since Panama (yes, I go back that far).
He seemed so reticent about Iraq, really drug his feet on the whole thing, and then the next thing I know, he's standing in front of the UN. He was the only one I believed. I figured that SOMETHING they had on Iraq convinced even HIM. Ah well.
I'm just tired of living in a Dog-Eat-Dog world.
Fawn
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Post by Ruderico on Nov 16, 2004 9:29:23 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm sorry Colin Powell left as well. He was the only one in Bush' administration that understands something about the world we live in today, and who might have been able to keep Bush' feet on the ground (so he wouldn't be drifting off too far in his dream world). But I guess he too grew tired of talking to the walls. @ Tarzanna77: I am all for an eye for an eye, as the Christians like to say. You steal, cut off your hand, you rape... well you get the idea. Of course I'm not going to judge you for reading the bible the way you want it, but my guess is that this is typically something what some Christians do, if they don't like what Jesus says: quote the OLD testament. And that is a book which is based on the Jewish tradition. So "an eye for an eye" is accually more a thing for Jews to say. Didn't Jesus say things like "turn the other cheek", "don't repay evil with evil, but with repay evil with good" etc.? I also remember Jesus standing up for sinners... Kill 'em all and let GOD sort 'em out. Why is it necessary to kill them yourself if you are already convinced that God will sort them out anyway?
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