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Post by Ruderico on Oct 23, 2005 10:19:35 GMT -5
Mmm, I sense that many people are going to be very angry with shakira for saying this about 9/11, but you have to understand the rest of the world views America and it's "way of life" very differently! First of all, for Europeans it is very strange to see this American worship of "ARMS", "the MILITARY", "US WARS", "the STARS AND STRIPES" and the "SOIL OF AMERICA". I don't think there is another country without significance for any world religion, that sees it's own country as "HOLY". Also, the military seems a profession that is highly respected in the country...that is totally new for a continent that is so traumatized by the crimes of army power!! WWII was a breakdown point, but the war in Yougoslavia was a confirmation of the human drama of war. It gave me great contempt for "our boys", who behaved as such disgusting pigs in Yougoslavia! Of course not all of them misbehaved, but the army cannot do much good in my eyes again. Even more so, I come to see that war is the most dispickable SIN of human nature and needs to be prevented at all times. I truely believe God cries when people commit such mass slaughter. For Americans, however, these values are so natural that you don't even question them or ask whether other countries have the same values as you do or not. You believe the rest of the world is waiting for everything that America brings it... Maybe that is meant in a very sweet and generous way, and some things that America offers the world are accepted with greatfullnes, but not everyone is waiting for Americans to tell them how to live and how to organize themselves!! People have different values in every part of the world you know! Like Fawn said, every country has to go through their own evolution which will lead them to a system that resembles democracy. This is a rocky road, but a very natural one. You might stimulate democracy from the sidelines (through financial and military aid to the opposition and diplomacy pressure), but direct infringement works counterproductive!! How would you feel about "freedom" if you still have occupying forces in your country that tell you exactly how to act and what to think? That's not how it works! Besides, I guess America has a lot of warfaring to do when it is going to attack every country that has a repressive dictator and calls for a change!! You better start saving and drop the BC for babies!! LOL ;D
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Post by gigi on Oct 23, 2005 18:27:04 GMT -5
We are all, each of us, responsible for our actions. To say that a country or person "brought it on themselves" is absolving the perpetrator of a crime from responsibility. The "world" didn't attack the World Trade Center-fanatics did. I am European. My family lived through World War 2 and I learned that war is hell early on. Unfortunately @#$% happens and we have to deal with it. Doesn't it make more sense to work towards finding solutions that will satisfy our mutual values and interests instead of pointing fingers and posturing? We need to support our people domestically first before we take on the globe. As I see it we're already part-way to being a global society. Evidently the transition isn't going to be smooth.
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Post by Wahaika on Oct 23, 2005 20:22:28 GMT -5
You're wasting your breath Gigi. We're just a bunch a dumb hicks o'er here in da hollers.
Most Europeans, let alone Americans, don't have a clue how & why our country started, so it would be quite impossible for them to comprehend why we put so much emphasis on God over here. (Don't worry America haters, there are people working 24/7 to fix that)
War is sometimes a necessary evil, in God's eyes too by the way. But don't expect them to understand that. They are constantly being bombarded by liberal (by our definition of the term) anti-American garbage by a liberal news media. By the way, so are we. You should hear some of the stuff that soldiers tell us when they come back and how it is 180 degrees out from what the wonderful all knowing and trusted news media is feeding us.
Among so many experts, I would think that the truth (what the real enemy is in the war with Iraq) would somehow emerge. But they better not look to us dumb overambitious undereducated hicks to explain it to them. They will be educated soon enough if their infinite wisdom of the ages will somehow allow them to see it.
Maybe we should have stayed out of WWII. Just think, the EU, in a different form, would have gotten an earlier start back then and all of Europe would be speaking German or Russian today.
I blame something that has happened on both continents over the last 60 years. Moral decay and corruption justified though the philosophy of opposing personal responsibility. Many of the evils and loss of values that we know today descend from that.
Y'all come back now, ya heer!
Wahaika
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Post by Ruderico on Oct 24, 2005 6:22:15 GMT -5
I truely respect the American participation in WWII and in the liberation of Europe, it showed what a true ally is! And I don't just say that to be political correct, I mean that from the bottem of my heart. So who are you calling an America-hater? (the fact that you instantly call me a "America-hater" makes me wonder whether criticism and difference of opinion equal "hate of America" to you...scary) Therefor, I initially supported the Netherlands participation in the "Coalition of the Willing", just to show America that Holland is a friend you can rely on, and because I couldn't really believe America would betray us so much that they would drag us in a religous sensitive war, based on no real evidence. So it hurts that America manipulated us to join in this unholy war, and that we have to be scared now for terrorist attacks, while we don't have adequate means to protect ourselves like the Americans do. You can think about that too, allies that joined America in this crazy war that puts us all in jeopardy. America had the world behind it after 9/11, everybody understood the actions against Afghanistan, but now America created radicals all over the world by beginning a war that was not necessary, and dragged his friends with him into this hell hole. It's not all about America you know, we made sacrifices too! So about the use of force in case necessary: Yes, I am for military intervention when humans are treated like animals! I want to work for the UN remember? But Iraq is not the country that needed this "freedom" the most, nor was the liberation the initial reason to invade Iraq! Don't forget that this "liberalization of the people of Iraq" is some sort of positive side-effect of the attack of Saddam for his "potential treat to the world". Or did we all forget this war for fought for the idea of being in "real danger" because of Saddams nuclear weapons? Now I don't say that Iraqi people weren't repressed by their dictator, or that Saddam is a nice person (no way), but I do wonder why Saddam was so much worse that the gouvernments in Soudan, in Zimbabwe, or in Congo. In these countries men are chopped to pieces and women are raped for days by a bunch of militants, every day. In Congo people are even being eaten by a voodoo army. Now Saddam was cruel, but not even he committed this kind of mass butchering. So why on earth is there nobody to attack these countries? Is their right to freedom or their need for protection less than those of the Iraqi's? Ehh... Think for yourself. So this war has never been about freeing the repressed people of Iraq. It was about protection of US vital interests, like the elimenation of the potential nuclear program and the safe-guard of oil for future means. The "freedom of the Iraqi people"-argument only emerged when the proof of nuclear weapons failed to come. If your honest you can remember the change in reasoning of the administration. Don't get me wrong, I understand you are a very loyal type of persons and you like to defend the values you've been brought up with. So you like to stand behind your president, no matter what. But being loyal, doesn't mean you have to close your eyes and stop thinking for yourself! If you acknowledge that Bush made some mistakes here and there, that doesn't mean you can't be a Republican anymore! There are many Republicans that feel proud of what they stand for, but regret that Bush ever made it to the White House. They didn't needed "liberal media" to tell them that, just their own healthy mind. Wahaika: don't you dare call me dumb, because I don't agree with you! It's your arrogance that strikes me about your character, not your beliefs.
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yuna0z
Full Member
"You seek the promise land!"
Posts: 241
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Post by yuna0z on Oct 24, 2005 9:00:30 GMT -5
Ruderico where are you from?
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Post by Ruderico on Oct 24, 2005 10:29:10 GMT -5
I initially supported the Netherlands participation in the "Coalition of the Willing", just to show America that Holland is a friend you can rely on So I guess I'm from the Netherlands Or was that meant in another way? ;D
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Post by fawnmarie on Oct 25, 2005 10:37:36 GMT -5
Well, I'm not mad at Shikira, but it seemed like an odd thing to say. I don't think ANY civilians "deserve" to be slaughtered like that, where ever they live or whoever their government. Attacking civilians is a sign of cowardice. There are crazy people everywhere. There are fanatics in all groups. Granted, the muslim ones seem to be the most annoying at the moment, but there's been nut-jobs all throughout history. Whenever people start seeing themselves as "better" "God's chosen" or "Holier" they start seeding intolerant fanatics. "First of all, for Europeans it is very strange to see this American worship of "ARMS", "the MILITARY", "US WARS", "the STARS AND STRIPES" and the "SOIL OF AMERICA". I don't think there is another country without significance for any world religion, that sees it's own country as "HOLY". Well, we really DO like the place. It means a lot to us. Many of us, or our very recent ancestors, put up with a lot of hardship to get here. Some of mine got here ten thousand years ago, but the remainder only got here about 100 years ago, running away from Europe - World War I in Germany, and the oppression of religion and race in Ireland. And remember, we're an adolescent country. You know how adolescents are always posing, flexing muscles, trying to show off and show up their elders. "Also, the military seems a profession that is highly respected in the country...that is totally new for a continent that is so traumatized by the crimes of army power!! " American soldiers give up a significant amount of their personal liberties and rights to become soldiers. It's an avocation, It's similar to joining a monastary, giving up one's freedoms for a greater good. Yes, it's a respected profession in this country. As a whole, the American soldier hasn't done anything to destroy that respect. "For Americans, however, these values are so natural that you don't even question them or ask whether other countries have the same values as you do or not. You believe the rest of the world is waiting for everything that America brings it... " So many people keep showing up at the doorstep asking to be let in. I guess they just figured it would be more cost effective to export it. Seriously - I don't know why this is done. It does seem to be a natural evolution - and maybe Karl Marx was right and the next step is Communism from democracy. Personally, I don't think we're that evolved yet - any of us, really. Okay, maybe the Chinese. But I'm not sure it can be done without the step THROUGH democracy. From Wahaika - "Most Europeans, let alone Americans, don't have a clue how & why our country started, so it would be quite impossible for them to comprehend why we put so much emphasis on God over here. (Don't worry America haters, there are people working 24/7 to fix that)" Wahaika - please don't go into another one of your religious-political tirades. The history of the US is a constantly evolving thing, starting with the neolithic orientals that migrated here 25,000 years ago all the way up to the last Cuban to hit Miami Beach. There isn't any "start point" in history that points to any particular "place" or "reason" the US started. Don't even go there - you're showing your ignorance of history, and religious fanatical refusal to acknowledge any influence in our structure after 1790. Our country started, because some bored folks in Asia wanted to see if there was more food here than there. Our country started because some crazy religious fanatics got kicked out of Britain. Our country started because the Spanish were looking for a route to Asia spice traders that was quicker than going around Africa. Our country started because some rich dudes here got tired of paying higher taxes to George than rich dudes in England were paying. Our country started because the Irish peasants' potato crops failed and unable to pay their rents they were evicted and ended up on famine ships. Our country started because defenseless people was heartlessly ripped from their homes and shipped to the US to work as slave labor. Our country started because Bolshevik policy prohibited worshipping god in any form, so they migrated to the US. Our country started because middle class Chinese families would not live under communism, or Cuban families, or Russian families, or German families. Our country didn't "start" - it's a living and growing and evolving thing, changing every day. So, get over it - and save us the diatribe. It's old and it's ignorant and if you keep it up, you won't be any better than guys crashing planes into buildings full of women and children. It's SO disappointing, because normally you're an intelligent and rational person. I think the world has had enough of religious fanaticism for a while. Rudy - "So who are you calling an America-hater? (the fact that you instantly call me a "America-hater" makes me wonder whether criticism and difference of opinion equal "hate of America" to you...scary)" Rudy - Wahaika, in this particular arena, is an extremist. He thinks that anyone who doesn't believe exactly as he believes is anti-American. It's surprising, because otherwise he shows a great deal of scientific insight and understanding. I'm quite a supporter of my country, yet kind of liberal in a way. I actually believe in freedom of speech, person, and the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, without feeling a need to define what those things mean for everyone else. Remember - there are a small portion of any population that are fanatical or off-kilter. He is not representative of what most people feel or think. A great deal of our population feel that Bush is a complete failure, a liar, and a fake, but most don't see any fair and gracious way of getting our asses out of Iraq, because the Iraqi's don't have it together enough to control their own country and keep the insurgency from toppling everything they have left. So, we're sort of stuck there. If we just leave now, and everything falls apart - it's our fault that we pulled out too soon and the whole thing imploded. Apparently there was a lot of complaints about the previous Gulf War. We were asked by the UN to get Iraq out of Kuwait - which we did. And apparently Hussein wreaked havoc on those in his country who supported us (i.e. Kurds and Shiites), and he slaughtered them when we left, and WE were blamed. So, this time we are stuck, because the Iraqi's cannot yet protect themselves against their own fanatics. It's really an ugly stupid situation. We shouldn't have gone in in the first place, but since we did, we can't just leave. Can't undo the past or go back in time. It sucks. Fawn
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Post by Ruderico on Oct 26, 2005 7:00:01 GMT -5
Well, all I can say is that I totally agree with you, Fawn! This war shouldn't have been started, but now the harm is done, all we can do is to pick up the pieces and make the best of the situation. But social climate in Holland scares me lately; a growing number of our large muslim community starts to radicalize because of this war in Iraq. This is a direct threat to the nation lately, and therefor I regret this war so much! I hate to see this war end up in a so-called "clash of civilizations"!
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Post by Wahaika on Oct 26, 2005 11:06:30 GMT -5
I see that my comments were a bit abrasive and I apologize for that. If I appear confident then it is because I go to great lengths to be correct. I am not an extremist, contrary to the opinions of others, just thorough. If/when religion is involved in the facts surrounding the discussion on some topics, I do not go out of my way to avoid it as others do. I am interested only in the truth and the facts, and I hope you are too. But I do apologize for the abrasive nature and I hope that you will all accept my apology and overlook the tone in the future instead of launching an attack of your own. I should have written it this way. Here are some things to think about: It's not about nukes, it's about Weapons of Mass Destruction and a threat to the United States. Osama Bin Laden and his followers, radical Islamists, attacked the United States and caused more casualties than the Pearl Harbor attack in 1941. So, in spite of the centrists point of view, we as a nation take it very seriously. George Bush decided to wipe them out including those who harbor terrorists. The coalition of the willing, led by the U.S. took them out in Afganistan. The Iraq connection is largely based on British intelligence (which they still stand behind), U.N. Inspector reports, the unwillingness of Sadam Hussein to conform to U.N. sanctions from the previous war in Iraq, and his build up of WMDs. I think this is all very well known and understood. When the enemy surrenders there are terms to the agreement to cease hostilities, otherwise the war continues. Saddam Hussein broke those agreements. There were about 70 or so of them. The corrupted U.N leadership (another discussion if you wish - which was about oil) refused to take action to enforce the cease fire agreements. The so-called war with Iraq is a continuation of the original war led by George Bush Sr. Is everyone aware of this? So, if there is blame to be had, blame the U.N. for not pursuing and defeating Saddam Hussein and blame Bill Clinton for not accepting Osama Bin Laden when Sudan offered him to the U.S. (another discussion if you wish) which would have avoided all of this. Q: Why impose democracy on Iraq? A: Because when we took out Saddam Hussein, another Hitler type, Iraq was left without a government. If we had left it at that, Iran would have come in and taken over (like the insurgents are trying to do now) and the world would have another dictatorship to deal with. The observation has been made that democracies do not make war with each other, we have had a good experience with it, as has Europe while we watched king after king get dethroned or rendered inate in favor of a democratic government. It seemed like a good idea to walk a new Iraq through the process and have a friendly country emerge when it is all over. The difference here is that it is being handed to them without them having to fight for it themselves. It is my opinion that they will either screw it up or will eventually abandon it because they did not pay the price themselves. The nature of Islam must be completely separate from their government or it will either fail or be a greater threat to Israel and all other countries down the road. It is not about oil. It is about peace and security. BTW, we are feeling the squeeze of higher oil prices also. This is not from the war, it is from competition of emerging economies in Europe, Russia, and China that is going on at the same time. I don't quite buy into that argument but I think that it is part of the answer. What is not part of the answer is that the war was fought over oil. If we wanted the oil, we would have taken it. But that would not have been a very ethical thing to do would it?! Q: Why the emphasis on WMDs? Were/are they actually there? A: Yes. Evidence of their labs and other evidence have been found. But the weapons themselves are missing. It is thought that they have been hidden in Syria, a good friend of Saddam Hussein, as many other weapons were hidden and have been found elsewhere. It is the opinion of many that a conflict with Iran and/or Syria is inevitable. On the subject of nukes, read the following: "However, inspections in Iraq following the UN Gulf War cease-fire resolution showed the extent of Iraq's clandestine nuclear weapons program, it became clear that the IAEA would have to broaden the scope of its activities. Iraq was an NPT Party, and had thus agreed to place all its nuclear material under IAEA safeguards. But the inspections revealed that it had been pursuing an extensive clandestine uranium enrichment program, as well as a nuclear weapons design program. " ( www.uic.com.au/nip15.htm ) "An Iraqi scientist who defected to the United States has publicly described for the first time the inner workings of Iraq's three-decade effort to build a nuclear bomb. The scientist, Khidhir Abdul Abas Hamza, said that before he fled Iraq in 1994 he helped train a cadre of young scientists who, working with more senior scientists involved in other projects, would be capable of quickly resuming Iraq's atomic weapons program if the United Nations cuts back on its inspections and, ultimately, lifts economic sanctions." ( www-personal.umich.edu/~sanders/214/other/news/iraqi_defector.html ) "After the 1991 Persian Gulf War, Iraq denied it had a nuclear weapons program, but U.N. inspectors determined it was trying to build an atomic bomb. Former inspectors have said Iraq had all the parts and know-how and would have gone nuclear had it not been for the Gulf War." ( www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,84139,00.html ) I hope that this puts any doubt about nuclear capability to rest. Iraq was developing it and would surely have used it against the U.S. and/or its allies including Israel. We were taking out a dictator that was considered a threat to all of our security. Witch doctors in the Congo are not considered a threat to the security of the U.S. and its allies or they would be taken out also. Now, let me pose a question which is the basic philosophy behind the war with Iraq: If it was known that Adolph Hitler was going to overthrow the Reichstag (the name of the German democratic government at the time) and destroy the cultures of Germany, Austria, and other countries, murder millions of innocent Jews, bombing English civilians, cause untold death and carnage in WWII, would it not have been better to take him out early and avoid it? Wahaika
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Post by Wahaika on Oct 26, 2005 11:55:02 GMT -5
--- The following tone is intentional as Fawn and I go back and forth like this occasionally. ---
Fawn. You are a piece of work! How do you do it? You are such an expert on religion, politics, science, anthropology, and practically everything else including me! How do you keep it all in that big head of yours? I love how you begin by accusing me of tirades at the beginning of your own tirade. Brilliant tactic!
>>"So, get over it - and save us the diatribe. It's old and it's ignorant and if you keep it up, you won't be any better than guys crashing planes into buildings full of women and children. It's SO disappointing, because normally you're an intelligent and rational person."
You know, if I said something like that everyone would be all over me. Please tell me how having an opinion is the same as mass murder as you have suggested. Why is confronting facts ignorant? Please answer this. I, Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde, would really enjoy the answer.
>>"Our country didn't "start" - it's a living and growing and evolving thing, changing every day."
Yes, everything is changing everyday, but WOW, that is really a strange statement coming from someone who put their life on the line for their country. Do you have any idea what you were defending? Why are your anthropoligical theories in such denial about the role of God and the emphasis of God in the founding of our country? Our country didn't "start"? Ha! Ya gotta love relativism!
Well, you have your opinions. I hope that at least you see that if God is part of the facts of any particular subject, I do not avoid it, minimize it, or attempt to explain it away. I accept it and deal with it. If you think that is fanatacism, you're entitled to your opinion. But don't go telling others that I think bad of them in any way if they disagree with me because it is simply not true. You have been told this enough times that you should know better.
Wahaika
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Post by zanyzara on Oct 29, 2005 20:05:59 GMT -5
I have another perspective!!!! I am from the UK/Africa and as I understand it all America is doing in Iraq is what they have been doing over decades 'making sure they are number 1 and that they stay number 1' We Europeans should not get on a high horse because we do the same, meddle with countries when we see them as a threat or when we need something from them. Pakistan, India, Nigeria, Rwanda to name a few, and they are still recovering from the affects. As Rudico says 'the safe-guard of oil for future means'. Yes for OUR future generations, yes I said OURS, Europeans and Americans because whatever affects the US affects Europe. It was never about WMD or freeing the Iraq people it was about OIL = POWER. That is why they are not bothered with other countries yet. If it was not Bush it would have been another president that would have done the same thing. And it was not something that Bush woke up one morning and thought ' ah lets go and evade Iraq'. No!! America had probably planned this when Clinton was in office. Just imagine in 20-40 years from now when our oil reserves dwindle and the only source of oil is in Iraq or other West hater countries, what would we do if a regime such as Saddam is still in power? We will be at their mercy!!!! What will happen to our freedom? ? And you cannot negotiate or discuss with those people. I do dislike how the West, especially UK and America push other countries around just to stay as the superpower but I still have to give a lot of respect to what the USA has given to the world. Freedom!!, equal opportunities for ethnic minorities, women, disabled etc. freedom to speak, freedom to travel, freedom to see other cultures. Also let us not forget freedom to explore technological advancements. We would likely not be on this forum or have our creature comforts if it weren’t for the USA. Don't get me wrong I am not a US lover, far from it. But I know that as a black woman in the UK, I have the job and opportunities probably because of the US civil rights movements and how in certain aspects they appear to give everyone a chance. (I'm not fooled, there's still a long way to go but its a start) As opposed to 10 years ago, now its the in thing to be black in the UK. I am deviating, in conclusion I do not like war or Bush but I also know that something had to be done about Saddam but not sure what. I don't want to make this in a religious argument but as I was told 10 years ago by my Muslim friend (white by the way) There aim is for England to be an Islamic state, Islam laws Islam ways. This vision does not stop at the UK either. Rudo, could Holland be on that vision ?? I take Bush's Christianity as a pinch of salt. Not because he went to war in fact there are places in the bible that God commanded his people to go to war in order to protect the future generations. The USA Christianity reminds me of African Christianity. In Africa they have churches on every corner but the place is so corrupt. When Christ is really in your heart it affects your surroundings. We are in a moral decay, no matter how much we try without God we will always have problems, no president, no policy no law can fix our countries. ‘Having a form of godliness but denying his power‘. The more we push out Christ from our lives and country the more laws we need to have to make sure people act right. If Christ truly lives in a person there are certain things you can’t and won't do not because it's written 'do not do' but because Christ prompts you not to. My point is as a Christian we need to all live like this so why is America in the condition it is in. OK I have totally gone off, I arrived today from Atlanta (loved it) but it shocked me to see the contrast lives of the poor and the affluent and the many churches . You American’s stay proud of your country but try and be open minded about other countries and cultures and do not always see things according to the gospel of CNN. Us Europeans lets decide what we want and don’t always put down the hand that feeds us still embrace other cultures but be proud of ours. My two pence worth ZZ
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Post by zanyzara on Oct 29, 2005 20:09:59 GMT -5
Ruderico
you made a statement that the unrest with Muslims is due to Iraq war. I’m not sure about this, if so would you enlighten us on the killing of the politician and the film producer? Was not the unrest there before?
It would be interesting to get your perpective
ZZ
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Post by fawnmarie on Oct 31, 2005 12:00:58 GMT -5
I'm starting to think that ANY human being with the kind of hunger for power that will get them in charge (whether it's the prez of US, or PM of Australia or UK, or any OTHER position of power) is just NOT the kind of person to be trusted.
The civil rights movement was important. It should never be stopped.
With the passing of Rosa Parks last week, I have to admit that my two sons (12 & 13) were confused about the fuss. They simply are incapable of imaging different rules for people of different colors, and can't conceive of such a world. I think that's good.
They have absolutely NO concept of why it was important that a black woman refused to give her seat to a white man. Why would she?! (You can see the completely confusion in their faces.) What's the big deal? they seem to say.
They just can't conceive of it.
Hell, I'm 41 and can't imagine it (I was raised in the North). It still boggles.
I did, however, impress upon them that a woman should never, Never, NEVER be expected to give her seat to a man, EVER, unless he is old and feeble, and she is young and strong.
I often wonder what the value is in remembering, and reiterating and I wonder if we would not be better off just raising our children to believe that such a thing is impossible.
I think of the Irish conflict and how I feel about that. Are the Irish better off forgetting about what was done to them, and taken away from them?I'm part Irish, so I've studied some of the history. They were put to work for the benefit of other's fortunes, and their labor exploited. They were disallowed from owning property, speaking their own language or practicing their own religion. They were slaughtered by the 10's of thousands, starved and sent across the ocean in rickety ships (Famine Ships), with only a percentage of them surviving. Most of them were indentured servants to pay off their fare after they arrived in the US.
This seems to be a trend in human history, being abused, exploited and exterminated doesn't seem to be specific to any particular race or color.
People!!!!
So, I find ANY form of fanaticism scary. When you start thinking you're 'better' or 'god's chosen', you often start thinking other people are 'undesirable' or 'less blessed' or 'infidels' and that's when holocausts and genocides start becoming rationalized. And that's when other people suffer, and you become a monster, and you can't tell me THAT'S what God intends for anybody. Monsterhood?
Fawn
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Post by fawnmarie on Oct 31, 2005 12:03:24 GMT -5
Wahaika,
Belief is a wonderful thing. It's make people humans. Please don't politicize it, it's more important and precious than that.
Fawn
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Post by shakira8 on Oct 31, 2005 15:05:11 GMT -5
I didn't say that the american people that died deserved it,don't change my words,I said that America tends to send army wherever and whenever they want even if it's not needed so many countries are mad at America and it was expected that smth like this would happen.Many children have lost their parents(this goes the other way round too) in those countries and America's statements were like:"Oops,sorry,collateral damage!"You have to think outside the box.I'm NOT saying that I hate America,I thought I had made that clear,I just don't like the governments policy and how easily they start wars everywere,drop bombs on hospitals and then claim that it was "for their own good".Again I'm saying that people like you in America don't see the full story,the media don't show you the stuff you should see,it's not your fault you don't understand why I'm talking like this.NOT happy about 11/9,just think it was expected ,thats all.
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