Who has gained weight while on BE?

[Wahaika]

Hello,

Who has gained weight while on BE?

Did you have any success?

How do you do on Dr. Lee's test:
www.johnleemd.net/forms/hb_test.html
Specifically, Symptom Group 6 (Cortisol Deficiency) ?

Thanks in advance,

Wahaika
(OK Lucy, are you ready to discuss another theory?)

[gigi]

Wahaika,
Yes, I've gained weight on BE but I have to qualify that because at least some of that can be attributed to my age. There's a strong tendency to gain while in perimenopause/ menopause. If my memory serves-l'arginine helps with that-Dr Lee's test had me estrogen dominant and progesterone deficient but I'm low on both. Since background has been addressed in another thread, I'm German and lactose intolerant (moderately). Dark chocolate however, is my addiction.
Too much information? I'll stop now.

[kathio]

Yes..... I have also gained weight on BE and not much of it is in my boobs sorry to say. I'm not sure if it's because of the hebs or because I have slacked off on my low carb eating and dieting because Be and diet and heavy exercise aren't compatible. I have just got to get back to eating low carb and doing some Pilates and T-tapping or my butt is going to get really out of control. I have noticed a lot more cellulite as well. It is scarey... My thighs look like a couple of hail damaged buick fenders. I think Fawn said maybe that was red clover effects. Then someone else said red clover was essential to Be. I just ordered more herbs and I am going to keep trying, but I am going to have get back to exercising faithfully. Any advise about the cellulite would be greatly appreciated. I know skin brushing helps but I am bad about it and I am not sure I am doing it right .

[gigi]

Hi Kathio,
I haven't gained as much in the boobs as the butt! I also never had cellulite before BE. The skin brushing does help minimize it though. I do Pilates alternated with a "Method Toning" boot camp. At my advanced age of 51 it seems like everything is a struggle except for eating which I have only currently gotten under some control. Hopefully the weather will get warmer soon so that I can be more "pleasantly" active instead of shovelling snow and ice. When I discover something that works for this cellulite I'll let you all know ASAP.

[fawnmarie]

I gained a little on BO - about 4-5 pounds, but got back my C cup.

I switched to herbs and gained a LOT of weight (another 10 pounds which STILL doesn't want to come off) and got up to a D cup which shrank when I quit the herbs.

I have a couple of the Cat 6 symptoms, which have been even worse in the past.

Fawn

[warriorqueen]

I seem to be in category 6 more than any of the others. I think I've gained a bit of water with herbs/BO but nothing dramatic. As far as BE goes, I've increased from an A to a B (from 7"to 8" across) in about 2 yrs on and off BE. I've tried BO longest and have been experimenting with herbs for about 7 mos of an on (stopped for at least 3 consecutive cycles recently). I tend to get a bit of cellulite - mainly stomach of all places and a little on upper arms.

[fawnmarie]

"I tend to get a bit of cellulite - mainly stomach of all places and a little on upper arms. "


Yep - that's cause your an android/warrior type... that's where that body type gets cellulite.

(How ARE those electric sheep doing?)

[Wahaika]

Thank you all for responding.

Here is where I am headed with this (and you can tell me if it sounds like it is on/off the mark.)

I was staring at the steroid hormone chart, as I tend to do occasionally, and noticed that even if someone successfully blocked progesterone (and especially if they are supplimenting with pregenalone) that the Cortisol pathway could still take pregenalone out of the path to DHEA.

So, I started thinking about Dr. Lee's test and how it deals with Cortisol deficiency symptoms but not excess Cortisol.

What would happen if someone successfully got a slight bit of growth (maybe undetectable from the exterior) and the endocrine system slightly increased pregenalone to fund the need for more estrogen, but instead of the hormones getting to DHEA, they went towards Cortisol due to a Cortisol deficiency, or simply because the adrenals were trying to crank out more for whatever reason - maybe stress or caffeine?

To take this further, what if it resulted in a Cortisol excess? What would be the signs? Increased weight? Water retention? Celulite? ...and this would all land in the wrong places because the body stores fat near muscle mass before it stores it near organs like the breasts. That is also why the breasts and other organs will be the first place that fat is taken from when needed.

I found a suppliment that blocks exercise related Cortisol with about 30% efficiency.

Would a Cortisol blocker tend to cause a backfill effect which would put the hormones back into the DHEA path?



I thought that pregenalone diverted to Cortisol may explain why some get extra weight in the wrong places while on BE programs.

I think that added weight, anywhere, that can be attributed to a BE program is evidence that the BE routine is working. Due to a need for estrogen to maintain the new tissue, the pregenalone created to fill the need for more estrogen is simply being diverted down the wrong path - for whatever reason.

While I don't know how safe it is, or anything about Cortisol, I think this makes a good case for a Cortisol blocker, if it can be done safely.

Any thoughts?

Wahaika

[gigi]

I seem to recall that cortisol blocks prolactin which is instrumental in breast growth. Stimulating prolactin production is effected by massage. Is there such thing as a cortisol blocker and if there is would that also affect adrenaline production?

[warriorqueen]

Yep - that's cause your an android/warrior type... that's where that body type gets cellulite.

(How ARE those electric sheep doing?)
Afraid they just short-circuited nibbling away at the cellulite!
At least I'm 100% certain about my body type now!

[fawnmarie]

Some info on Cortisol....



Glucocorticoids

In contrast to loss of mineralocorticoids, failure to produce glucocorticoids is not acutely life-threatening. Nevertheless, loss or profound diminishment of glucocorticoid secretion leads to a state of deranged metabolism and an inability to deal with stressors which, if untreated, is fatal.

In addition to their physiologic importance, glucocorticoids are also among the most frequently used drugs, and often prescribed for their anti-inflammatory and immunosuppressive properties.

Cortisol and Glucocorticoid Receptors

The vast majority of glucocorticoid activity in most mammals is from cortisol, also known as hydrocortisone. Corticosterone, the major glucocorticoid in rodents, is another glucocorticoid. Cortisol binds to the glucocorticoid receptor in the cytoplasm and the hormone-receptor complex is then translocated into the nucleus, where it binds to its DNA response element and modulates transcription from a battery of genes, leading to changes in the cell's phenotype. Only about 10% of circulating cortisol is free. The remaining majority circulates bound to plasma proteins, particularly corticosteroid-binding globulin (transcortin). This protein binding likely decreases the metabolic clearance rate of glucocorticoids and, because the bound steroid is not biologically active, tends to act as a buffer and blunt wild fluctuations in cortisol concentration.

Physiologic Effects of Glucocorticoids

There seem to be no cells that lack glucocorticoid receptors and as a consequence, these steroid hormones have a huge number of effects on physiologic systems. That having been said, it can be stated that the best known and studied effects of glucocorticoids are on carbohydrate metabolism and immune function.

Effects on Metabolism

The name glucocorticoid derives from early observations that these hormones were involved in glucose metabolism. In the fasted state, cortisol stimulates several processes that collectively serve to increase and maintain normal concentrations of glucose in blood.

These effects include:
· Stimulation of gluconeogenesis, particularly in the liver: This pathway results in the synthesis of glucose from non-hexose substrates such as amino acids and lipids and is particularly important in carnivores and certain herbivores. Enhancing the expression of enzymes involved in gluconeogenesis is probably the best known metabolic function of glucocorticoids.
· Mobilization of amino acids from extrahepatic tissues: These serve as substrates for gluconeogenesis.
· Inhibition of glucose uptake in muscle and adipose tissue: A mechanism to conserve glucose.
· Stimulation of fat breakdown in adipose tissue: The fatty acids released by lipolysis are used for production of energy in tissues like muscle, and the released glycerol provide another substrate for gluconeogenesis.

Effects on Inflammation and Immune Function

Glucocorticoids have potent anti-inflammatory and immunosuppressive properties. This is particularly evident when they are administered at pharmacologic doses, but also is important in normal immune responses. As a consequence, glucocorticoids are widely used as drugs to treat inflammatory conditions such as arthritis or dermatitis, and as adjunction therapy for conditions such as autoimmune diseases.

Other Effects of Glucocorticoids

Glucocorticoids have multiple effects on fetal development. An important example is their role in promoting maturation of the lung and production of the surfactant necessary for extrauterine lung function. Mice with homozygous disruptions in the corticotropin-releasing hormone gene (see below) die at birth due to pulmonary immaturity. Excessive glucocorticoid levels resulting from administration as a drug or hyperadrenocorticism have effects on many systems. Some examples include inhibition of bone formation, suppression of calcium absorption and delayed wound healing. These observations suggest a multitide of less dramatic physiologic roles for glucocorticoids.

Control of Cortisol Secretion

Cortisol and other glucocorticoids are secreted in response to a single stimulator: adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH) from the anterior pituitary. ACTH is itself secreted under control of the hypothalamic peptide corticotropic-releasing hormone (CRH). The central nervous system is thus the commander and chief of glucocorticoid responses, providing an excellent example of close integration between the nervous and endocrine systems. Virtually any type of physical or mental stress results in elevation of cortisol concentrations in blood due to enhanced secretion of CRH in the hypothalamus. This fact sometimes makes it very difficult to assess glucocorticoid levels, particularly in animals. Observing the approach of a phlebotomist, and especially being restrained for blood sampling, is enough stress to artificially elevate cortisol levels several fold! Cortisol secretion is suppressed by classical negative feedback loops. When blood concentrations rise above a certain theshold, cortisol inhibits CRH secretion from the hypothalamus, which turns off ACTH secretion, which leads to a turning off of cortisol secretion from the adrenal. The combination of positive and negative control on CRH secretion results in pulsatile secretion of cortisol. Typically, pulse amplitude and frequency are highest in the morning and lowest at night. ACTH, also known as corticotropin, binds to receptors in the plasma membrane of cells in the zona fasiculata and reticularis of the adrenal. Hormone-receptor engagement activates adenyl cyclase, leading to elevated intracellular levels of cyclic AMP which leads ultimately to activation of the enzyme systems involved in biosynthesis of cortisol from cholesterol.

Disease States

The most prevalent disorder involving glucocorticoids in man and animals is Cushings disease or hyperadrenocorticism. Excessive levels of glucocorticoids are seen in two situations:

· Excessive endogenous production of cortisol, which can result from a primary adrenal defect (ACTH-independent) or from excessive secretion of ACTH (ACTH-dependent).
· Administration of glucocorticoids for theraputic purposes. This is a common side-effect of these widely-used drugs. Cushing's disease has widespread effects on metabolism and organ function, which is not surprising considering the ubiquitious distribution of glucocorticoid receptors. A diverse set of clinicial manifestations accompany this disorder, including hypertension, apparent obesity, muscle wasting, thin skin, and metabolic derangements such as diabetes. Insufficient production of cortisol, often accompanied by an aldosterone deficiency, is called Addison's disease or hypoadrenocorticism. Most commonly, this diease is a result of infectious disease (e.g. tuberculosis in humans) or autoimmune destruction of the adrenal cortex. As with Cushing's disease, numerous diverse clincial signs accompany Addison's disease, including cardiovascular disease, lethargy, diarrhea, and weakness. Aldosterone deficiency can be acutely life threatening due to disorders of electrolyte balance and cardiac function.

[fawnmarie]

Okay - I do have a point, but it's going to take a little while for me to get to it...

First of all, I would be interested to know what supplement blocks cortisol and by what mechanism. Does it antagonize at the receptor or does it work on the pituitary? The only thing I can think of would be one of the "Cortoslim" type diet pills, or it's ingredient or one of the adenosine blockers (which isn't really cortisol).

Anyway - I think I understand what you are thinking Wahaika, and it's very interesting.

Both cortisol and estrogen cause weight gain, but by two separate mechanisms and in two different patterns, so it would be obvious, at least eventually, if the weight gain were caused by excess cortisol or estrogen.

Estrogen causes weight gain by increasing the amount of "Fat Doors" in the cells. It's kind of a spiral, because the more estrogen receptors are in the cells, the more they pick up, and then the more estrogen receptors are created in the cell. At the same time, more alpha-adrenoreceptors are created in the same cells, which are the receptors that resist the catechlomines that cause fat-burning. And the fat cells themselves produce even MORE estrogen. Estrogen causes weight gain in the hips, thighs, buttocks and breasts. Estrogen causes cellulite - the density of alpha-adrenoreceptors in the areas where you find cellulite on women is extremely high. The skin structure is such that it buckles under the pressure of all that extra fat storage - so you get cellulite. Although "Warrior" types might also get it in their bellys and upper arms, most will get it in their thighs and lower bodies because of the density of these receptors there. (Warrior-type women are a small minority of the females.)

Cortisol causes weight gain through a completely different mechanism. First of alli, it's important to remember that there is no "balance" level of cortisol - it is produced and released in direct relation to stress or threats to survival. It stimulates the synthesis and release of glucose from the liver to provide fuel for escape or attack. The problem with scenario is not in the production - but in the response. Since most modern stress and threats cannot be dealt with in a physical manner, this glucose floats around in the blood stream until the pancreas catches on, and dumps insulin to move the extra glucose out of the bloodstream and into the fat tissues. Since there was no use of muscles, there's no depletion of resources in the muscle tissue, the excess glucose moves into the fat cells.

Cortisol in excess causes weight gain in another way - by causing muscle wasting. (I believe it converts muscle tissue to glucose as well.) As muscle is wasted, less calories are required to maintain the body, and continuing on the same diet will cause excess fat.

Most of the "Cortisol" type diet pills are really only effective on young stress-eaters and older people. As we get older, we produce less HGH. HGH un-does all the muscle damage that cortisol causes. Our HGH levels lower, but our cortisol levels remain constant, and eventual, the imbalance causes a disporportion of muscle to fatty tissue.

Cortisol tends to cause weight gain in the midsection, perhaps because of paracrine effects - the cells surrounding the gland producing the hormone being more effected that others. Both men and women gain weight in the midsection from excess cortisol, which is why older women tend to lose their defined waists and their hips and thighs thin out - they are producing less estrogen, less HGH and the same amount of cortisol.

But cortisol is ONLY produced on demand and as needed, except in diseased states. The body naturally produces pregnenolone all the time, from the mitochondria. Adding pregnenolone would not increase the amount of cortisol produced unless there was a deficiency. But not over and above that. At that point, it would be diverted to produce other steroid hormones. The pituitary would shut off production of cortisol by stopping production of CRH once it perceived that there was adequate cortisol to deal with the situation.

Okay - there ARE disease states that would override this negative feedback loop. Ironically enough, excess cortisol damages the part of the brain that perceives the need for cortisol - HOWEVER - this is not a common condition.

Cortisol also helps control our diurnal cycle - by balancing out the sophorific effects of melatonin. Cortisol levels rise in the morning to wake us (which is why the majority of heart attacks occur in the morning - right at the peak of cortisol rise) and rises in the afternoon to help wake us from our after lunch snooze and help us make sure we are energized enough to prepare for nightfall (find food and shelter away from predators). BTW - this is why older people sleep so much less, because as stated before, cortisol levels tend to remain steady as we age, but melatonin production slows as the pineal gland calcifies with age.

So - Yes - if you lived a life of constant stress and threat or were neurotic or paranoid, or had a disease state of some kind - yes - it makes PERFECT sense that pregnenolone would be diverted for cortisol production. And I think this would happen whether pregnenolone were supplemented or not.

Unless you suffer from one of these disease states, however, I'm not sure it's a good idea to block cortisol (and it would also depend on HOW it's block - and how it works), because cortisol DOES serve positive effects on the body, and IS necessary. Which is why it might be more effective to increase HGH and reduce the necessity of cortisol output.

There are a couple different ways of reducing natural cortisol output, first of all by reducing stress. Licorice is said to balance the output of the adrenal glands, and as I recall when I used it, I had a warm steady stream of energy on it with few highs and lows.

Eating frequent small meals reduces cortisol production, as does refraining from exercising for more than 20-30 minutes at a time.

I think reducing the need for cortisol would be more effective than blocking the cortisol. After all - it's still being produced - it's just not being picked up in the tissues.

Please tell me about this supplement, though - I'm very curious!

Fawn

[Wahaika]

Howdy Fawn,

Here is a the link to the stuff that claims to block cortisol:
www.n101.com/Static/Products/cort-bloc_061930798320.html

I think you are right. Doing other things to keep the need for cortisol down seems like a good idea. Like insulin, a little dab'l do ya. I remember also reading something about magnesium being able to keep cortisol down.

Wahaika