It's been awhile....

[kitty]

I put this message on the old board, not knowing the board had moved. I am just cutting and pasting it into this message:

I don't know how many of you remember me, I was doing BE summer of 2002 then got pregnant and was enjoying my natural pregnancy enlargement , gave birth June 11, naturally I might add ( ), and am now breastfeeding my darling little Ivy. I will probably breastfeed for at least a year, as recommended.

I don't know what got me on the track of thinking about BE again, but I thought I would check in on things. I guess I have been thinking that after breastfeeding, I will probably shrink down again and will want desperately to start my BE again. Unfortunately, I have gained weight with pregnancy and have not yet succeeded in losing much . Since weight loss and BE do NOT mix, I have been thinking I need to get busy now! (I am not one of those skinny, breastless gals, I am one of the chunky, yet abnormally-small-for-my-weight gals) Even with my larger nursing size, I still look extremely small-breasted for my weight. Depressing! I would be perfectly happy with my current breasts if I were slim. I have always been two sizes bigger on bottom than on top all my life no matter what my weight, even when I was a slender teenager.

I am not sure exactly what I want to say, except to thank Fawn (who I have not "met" before, or at least I don't remember) for her very informative website. I thought it was interesting how the growth that happens during pregnancy and lactation are what is needed for BE. I was thinking that when I started BE again, I would get some generic BO. But after reading her website, I am very intrigued with the Saw Palmetto/Red Clover combination. When I was doing BE before, I was consuming large quantities of Fenugreek powder, but also using Saw Palmetto, Wild Yam creme, EPO, and a few more minor things to optomize my thyroid health, for balance and such, mostly following Bob's advice & knowledge. I didn't experience any significant change, though, which was why I was thinking to try BO. But if that works best for skinny gals, perhaps I should yet stick with herbs?

But back to Fawn's website: I have some questions. You are such a wealth of knowledge!! I am hoping you can help me. If BE is very similar to pregnancy/lactation, why do we women lose our gains afterwards preg/lact? We don't lose what we get in puberty (which for me wasn't much!!) And if it is so similar, would it be so bad to begin BE basics while nursing? Would it harm my baby? Would it mess with milk production? I know that some of these herbs are encouraged to be used while nursing to increase milk flow, but perhaps not in such high quantities. I know that everywhere you read recommends against taking just about anything when pregnant or lactating, but quite often it is just a precaution with no known danger. Who knows, maybe it will help Ivy be bustier when she grows up, and someday she will thank me! (Small-chestedness seems to run in my family) I am not REALLY considering BE while breastfeeding, I am mostly curious. Though I do wonder if this lactation tea will boost my future BE efforts....

Thanks, everyone, and anyone who remembers me, feel free to say "Hi!"

[princess26]

Hi Kitty,
Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in...I was not on the board when u were, but thought I would answer atleast onbe question u asked...I would wait to start BE until you have weaned your baby. I don't think it's a good idea to do both at once.
I enjoyed the big boobs when I nursed my youngest child, but as soon as I was done nursing, they went away. I was a full D the whole time nursing, but within a week or so, shrank to a small deflated B cup...bummer..
I don't know which would be best for u, BO or herbs. I am sure that someone else will have input on that.
Good luck to u and congrats on the birth of your baby!!!
Kelly

[Wenonae]

I second Kelly...congrats on birth of your new child.

Now, done to BE business.

Definitely wait...in fact, prolly wanna wait until 6mos after you've weaned ur wee one. If u just HAVE to do something immediately after you've stopped weaning, do Reiki massages (which Lucille's just posted a GREAT illustration of) with phyto-estrogen massage lotion that's easy enough to make.

Your system needs to adjust before throwing any kinks in it. Also, there are a number of testimonials which will attest how BE went awry because they started BE too soon. You prolly have a good deal of estrogen in your system now, especially with the added weight, since as Fawn mention recently, estrogen is in fat cells.

Your best bet, for this next year..is to whip your body back into shape gradually (start out with walking and simple home excercises) to get ur metabolism up and muscles re-built, which help burn more calories and fats. Get some good protein in your diet throughout the day, so you'll tend to burn the reserve fats first. Eat 3-5 smaller meals throughout the day, before 8p.

Ladies have been doing well with T-Tapp...check out the 'fitness' section to see what's going on.

First things first....breast-feeding I hear also burns significant calories. Tell your little one to give u a 'hand' by puckering up!

Stay in touch.

[kitty]

Thx Kelly and Wenonae. I do not intent to restart my BE efforts until after weaning. My focus right now is losing weight. I am trying to do a 45 minute workout 5 times a week and am trying to eat less in general with high nutrition in what I do eat.

I am way too bottom heavy, as I am sure many people attracted to BE feel themselves to be. Reading Fawn's site made me wonder about the use of topical fat-burning creams to help target my trouble areas. I am particularly interested in the use of Yohimbine. I might not be so concerned about BE if I could just get my bottom half to be smaller in proportion to my top half.

First, can anyone tell me if Yohimbine is safe to use topically while nursing? Probably not, huh. I guess when in doubt, play it safe.

Second, Yohimbine is usually used as a sexual performance enhancer for men. The only topical weightloss lotion I have found is Yohimburn, which is ridiculously expensive. On the other hand, liquid Yohimbine can be purchased for a very reasonable amount. Does anyone know if it could be blended with a regular moisturizing lotion for the same effect?

Thanks for the advice about waiting awhile after weaning before attempting a regular BE regimine. If I can use the topicals and massage then, I will probably do that.

[Shaz]

Hello, I don't have any advise re BE, and I haven't had babies, so no experience there either. However, as you are trying to slim down after having a baby, I thought you might be interested in a fitness video web site that I like a lot: www.Cathe.com

If you have never tried fitness videos, I highly recommend these ones. There are many women on the forums there that have had children, and there is even a pregnancy forum. Cathe Friedrich herself (she stars in the fitness videos) has had 2 children, and talks about how she got back into shape.

The videos are pretty advanced, but they are making a set of beginner ones in March. Plus, even the the advanced ones can be modified when you start out.

I know that fitness videos aren't for everyone, but just thought I would pass this on!

[fawnmarie]

Hiya kitty,

Nice to meet you - glad you found useful information at my website.

First of all - actually not all women lose their entire size after nursing. Most first-time mommies do, and some do with every pregnancy. But not all. The growth that occurs during pregnancy and lactation is different than that that occurs during puberty - we are really trying to simulate puberty, rather than pregnancy, but since there is often growth for some women during pregnancy we want to look at that too.

Some women do keep their growth after nursing is done, especially after several children.

You actually can use fenugreek while nursing, if you want to. It's completely safe and has been used for hundreds of years to help new mothers increase their milk supply. I used it myself with my first baby.

Yohimbe - no - you shouldn't use that at all while nursing. Yohimbe works in several ways - and yes it is used as a sexual enhancer for men (works for women too BTW), because it is a vasodilator (improves blood flow). There are several different reasons for erectile disfunction, sometimes it's obstructed blood flow, sometimes its a lack of testosterone, sometimes it's psychological - yohimbe helps increase blood flow to the penis. It also stimulates certain neuroreceptors and gives a bit of a "rush".

There's a couple of different products that contain yohimbine hcl (which is what you need). If you are looking at yohimbe extract, it's not the same stuff, and trust me it - it doesn't work. I forgot the name of the other yohimbine hcl product, and I believe it's a lot cheaper, but more difficult to apply than the Yohimburn. The bottle does last quite a while and works very, very well. Most people seem to think it's worth the price.

Another product I've tried recently is the Rashelle Haines inch loss gel - which is a bit cheaper. It doesn't work as fast, but it does work pretty well. I used it before my sister's wedding last year and lost a couple of inches with it.

Right now, take advantage of nursing to lose the extra weight. Drink lots of water - maybe get a pump to pump and store milk. Nursing uses up more extra calories than being pregnant. Making extra milk will help you burn off more fat (and it freezes). The hormone prolactin produced when nursing in turn turns off the production of lipoprotein lipase in the lower body (the enzyme that collects fats from the blood stream and stores them as body fat). So, this is actually a great time to take off that extra weight.

Fawn

[kitty]

Fawn, thanks for answering my questions. I will focus on losing weight now. It has been frustrating, though, because over the holidays I gained and have lost any ground that I have made since giving birth. So here I am with a nearly 8 month old baby and am as big as ever! But I am "repenting" and I think I am beginning to make headway. I am not " dieting", I know the importance of getting plenty of nutrition, I am just trying to eat very nutritiously and not overeat, and I also have a really good workout 4-5 times a week (not easy with 3 little children!) I can feel my muscle mass building, but no significant losses yet.

Interesting what you said about some nursing mothers not losing it all after weaning, especially those who have given birth multiple times (Ivy is my 3rd breastfed child). Also interesting about the effects of prolactin on where the weight is lost. I will not use Yohimbine, heeding your warning. Perhaps this is a good opportunity for me to improve my top-to-bottom ratio--while nursing. That gives me hope. If things go well enough, I might not need as much BE after all.

I do worry, though, I have excercised dilligently after the first two pregnancies and either not lost much weight or lost it and kept the same undesireable top-to-bottom proportions. It simply might not work for me, and I might turn to topical weight loss cream once it is safe. Fawn, if you can find the name of that cheaper Yohimbine lotion, I would appreciate it!

Can anyone share their experiences under what circumstances breast size was lost after weaning (1st, or subsequent pregnancies)? Or is there a place on this site where it has already been discussed? Thanks!

[kitty]

Fawn, I was doing some research on Yohimbine HCL and found a very interesting site advertising a product called Lipoderm-Y. The site is www.1fast400.com The makers of this product claim to have developed a carrier that will deposit the yohimbine HCL in the fat tissue without much of it getting into the blood stream. The idea is that more of it gets to the actual site instead of the bloodstream carrying it all over the body. This is an issue I have wondered about a great deal with any external application of herbs or other chemicals, for instance, in BE.

To read their explainations and research on this product, go to: www.1fast400.com/?manufacturers_id=17&products_id=105
They sound to me like they know what they are talking about, even gathering scientific data through experimentation. But you probably know enough to be able to tell if it sounds feasible.

Would you check out the site and tell me what you think? If it really doesn't enter the bloodstream much, it might be safe for me to use now. They caution against pregnant women using it, but not lactating women. The price seems reasonable to, $20 for a month give or take as opposed to $70 or so from other products.

I have been thinking about what you said about breastfeeding helping with losing on the bottom half and not gaining it there, and I just don't think my body works that way. When I gained weight over the holidays it mostly went to my girth, perhaps all. Ever since I can remember, I have had a major tummy pooch below my navel, we are talking pre-pubescent here, with the rest of my body being very thin. I have gone through life looking 4-5 months pregnant, and now that I have been pregnant 3 times, I look 6 months pregnant all the time. My small bustline doesn't help!! My hips have always flared out very sharply right below my waist also, but that wouldn't bother me at all if my breasts matched my figure. I can't tell you how many times I have fantisized about liposuction being the solution to all my body-image woes. Especially if the fat removed could then be moved to my breasts! ;D Man, I should show you a photo of me so you can believe what I am telling you. My figure is and always has been messed up!! I am really very interested a good spot-fat-reduction product like this one, especially if it works. I intend to continue with good eating/excercising habits to actually lose the weight, but I want a product like this to help guide how that weight is lost.

While most of the women interested in BE have very little fat on there bodies, I believe there are some out there like me who have fat enough to spare, but it just won't go to the breasts. A product like this could go a long ways to helping improve our body image. IF I do try this and IF it works, I will probably post a recommendation for the product on this BE board.

[fawnmarie]

kitty,

We seem to be about 2:1 - one third of us being bottom heavy and 2 thirds of us being slim.

Have you done a body type test yet? From your description, you sound like a Communicator type - which means to diet you need to eat lean meats and vegetables, NOT LOW FAT - but low carb. Communicator types put their fat on their hips and below the belly button, but have skinny calves and arms and thin necks and shoulders.

About 50% of women have "pear-shaped" figures - although it can get out of control, it's not a bad thing, it's just the way we're shaped, and a lot of men think it's sexy. When the bottom gets WAY TOO big - well, yeah, okay - but I wouldn't worry about a slight dispporportion - it's pretty normal.

As for Lipoderm-Y - yep, that's the stuff. From Avant Labs. Avant sells it for $44, so $20 is a deep bargain. I may even buy some at $20 myself. I understand that Lipoderm is stickier and harder to apply than Yohimburn. The guys at Anabolic Fitness (who make Yohimburn) are great, really work with people and are always tweaking their products from customer feedback. They send me stuff gratis to test out once in a while. I'm familiar also with the guys at Avant (though not as recently or intimately) and I know that they really work at finding good formulas and good carriers. That $20 price at 1400Fast is TOOO good to pass up!

However - as for using it while breastfeeding - NO, NO, NO. And again - NO! Do not do it. There is no way you can guarantee it won't end up in your breast milk. It is NOT good for babies. It might give her heart palpitations or a stroke. She has a tiny and sensitive body, and whatever ends up in your milk could effect her 700 times worse than you or me. Forget it - PLEASE.

And if you don't believe me - contact the guys at Avant Labs www.avantlabs.com/ and ask them what they think.

The only safe product right now would be the Rashelle Haines gel. It's about $40 and not as strong, but I liked it a lot.

Fawn

[kitty]

Fawn, where would I find this body-type test? I looked under the links briefly and couldn't find it. I have heard others here refer to body type and wondered where the info came from. Communicator--interesting. What you described fits me to a T. Before I got heavier, I strictly only carried fat between my navel and knees. Even now, my forearms and lower legs are lean as can be! Only with my first pregnancy did my slim waist disappear and my triceps and upper back gain fat.

Those dangers to my baby sound pretty serious!! I might buy a bottle of it now and simply save it until I have weaned her. I guess some of the stuff is still going to reach the bloodstream, and harm her.

I have also been wondering about the claims for a product called Citristat (no website) that there is an acid in the rind of grapefruit that can destroy fat cells. There are plenty of products that use the pectin, but supposedly no other product is making use of the acid.

I am just remembering what a terrible struggle it was to lose weight after the last pregnancy. I even talked to a friend about my regimine and she said, "You should be dropping weight left and right!" Supposedly it is safe to lose a pound a week, and I never lost even half that much. My thyroid is fine. I did cut down on carbs and increase protein, but perhaps not enough. The sad thing is, meat and veggies are my least favorite thing to eat. I will eat fruit all day, and love bread. I make whole wheat bread myself, and I just got a Vitamix which I am using to help me take in more veggies by making fresh soups. I make fresh fruit smoothies every day, mostly made up of whole fruit. I love those!! My biggest weakness is the desire for SUGAR. I will eat anything sweet! That is my big downfall. But I am being really good right now. I will keep in mind your tips on what my body needs to lose weight. I really would like to read up on that!

[mominator]

www.yourbodytype.com/steps/firstStep/testQuestions.cfm?gender=Female

Here ya' go! Complete the questions on this site and it will give your body type. Search for "Survey Results" it should be in MSN Archives, to give the information you are looking for!
beboard.proboards23.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1068409980

Bust of Luck!

[fawnmarie]

Well, that's the kind of side effects yohimbine can cause to health adults who overdose. If there is even the TINIEST possibilty it could end up in your milk, it could be dangerous. I have used the topicals, and used too much at one time, and next thing you know, I've got jitters and heart palpitations. I wasn't careful, but I'm a big girl and there was no danger. But I would hate to think what could happen if it ended up in your milk.

My husband is 6.3, weighs about 220 and I won't let him near the stuff, because he has borderline high blood pressure.

As far as your sugar addiction - sounds like a Communicator already - and confirmed if you're a caffeine junkie, too.

For that, yep - you need meats and veggies (I know - I love high carbs, too - I'm addicted - I'm a communicator - and it's bad for us.)

Check it out and let us know.

Fawn

[kitty]

Hmmm, according to that survey, I am a Nurturer. Though I was often torn between that and Communicator responses. For many of the questions, the right answer for me wasn't an option. I would rather have read the descriptions of each one to decide which I am. It would've been cool if I found myself definitely clicking with an aspect of the survey and that they would have some secret answer to solve all my figure woes, but alas, it just isn't going to be that easy.

On caffine addiction, I haven't ever had enough caffine in my life to ever become addicted. I have purposefully avoided it, so it is hard to say if it would happen. I am so sluggish in the mornings though, a cup of coffee might make my mornings more productive!

So, since I don't have the book and the website won't tell me (and I am not at all convinced from the survey that I should buy the book), could anyone tell me more about the Nurturer and Communicator personalities?

[fawnmarie]

www.liverdoctor.com/Section3/14_bodytypes.asp
www.bodytype.com/jump_start/women.html
www.bodytype.com/jump_start/women.html
www.1sthealthsource.com/fitness/body-type/

finally:
www.healthynewage.com/eeindex.html
(scroll to the bottom)

There's a little variance in detail, but most of these sites agree with the basics.

Fawn

[kitty]

Check out this site!!! www.bodytype.com/bodytype

It has many more than just the four body types, and I wasn't satisfied that one of those four fit me. I think I may have found a MUCH closer match here: the gallblader body type. A couple of others come pretty close too. Tell me what you think!!