tweaking

[warriorqueen]

Hey guys,
I'm wondering if anyone has any advice. I hate to ask... This is my routine (in luteal phase):
3 x 3 red clover (totals = 3870mg)
2 x 4 saw palmetto (totals = 3200mg)
3 x 4 damiana (totals = 3600mg)
I get a few tingles but not much is happening (as usual). I look fuller but there is no measurable difference since last month. I also massage (trying the inverted reiki massage) and use booby batter of herb extracts (fenugreek, SP, oregano). I seem to respond well in the first 2-4 weeks (itching, some swelling) then my regime seems to give out on me. :oTook Dr. Lee's test which comes out different every time for me, and this time don't seem to be anything except slightly cortisol deficient. I'm trying to relax more, eat my protein, take my herbs on an empty stomach, and only exercise moderately. I've tried hypnosis and will give it another go (find it hard to get that into my routine tho). Any advice very appreciated
WQ

[Wahaika]

WQ,

Use Pammy's routine if you are a Warrior body type. That routine works well.

I know that Red Clover has been promoted on this board but I only know of one women who had success with it as it was part of HBA. (Are there others ? ? ?) However, HBA also uses the four staple herbs that Pammy's program uses.

We tried Fenugreek/Saw Palmetto in the booby batter last time around (back from break now) and it did not work as well as fenugreek alone. We are removing the Saw Palmetto from the booby batter but keeping it as an internal herb.

Fenugreek gets a bad rap but it's the best herb for BE. It definitely has the best track record.

Oregano and Damiana worked well for Wenonae. We might try those as well, but internally only. I think that the reason progesterone blockers work is that progesterone competes with DHEA for pregenalone. So, by using a progesterone blocker, you help the pregenalone down the DHEA path. Use Saw Palmetto internally to keep the testosterone from converting to DHT. Then there is more testosterone available to be aromatized into estrogen. As you get more and more cells with estrogen receptors, it should create the vaccum to draw the real hormones down the Pregenalone-DHEA-Testosterone-Estrogen(s) path with the blockers in place.

My two cents is to use Pammy's Routine as a baseline and then try other things once that is established. That is what we will be doing this time around. We will be experimenting with Oregano and possibly Damiana as progesterone blockers this time around.

Wahaika

[warriorqueen]

Hi Wahaika,
Thanks a million for your suggestions. So basically I should go for the tried and trusted herbal trio: FG, Wild Yam and SP, with added damiana or oregano. Well why not! I've just re-ordered some RC which is a bit of a pain, but I''ll use it to counter the effects of FG - and it's a prog. antagonist anyway which is great.
I seem to remember that your wife ramped up to 3000 of FG and Wild Yam, and 4000 of SP. I think Pammy was also on 3000mg of the big 3 first time round, then lowered the doses. Do you still recommend 3000mg FG and WY, or would less be fine too? I'll start adding FG on day 1 of next cycle, and cut back on the RC.
Thanks a lot Wahaika. Keep us posted of your wife's progress! She's grown slowly but surely which is very good to know when you've seemed to have hit a wall!

Good luck and happy growing (to your other half!)

WQ
p.s. it would be really great if you could post your wife's routine and notes on her growth pattern in the routines section. Added inspiration!

[mominator]

Hi WG,

I have been using Ylang-Ylang with the Reiki massage. Seeing some positives. I am getting back what I lost. I started getting a lot more tingles, pains, itchies, once I started the Ylang-Ylang, also notice heat while massaging:D

Due to the IHOP smell, I am choosing to do boobie batter 1x daily. But do the Ylang-ylang massage 2x 1x with heat. Might wanna' give it a try.

[Wahaika]

WQ,

The routine is posted as is the theory, thanks to the grand master of graphology on the board - Mominator.

The ramp up will be up when I figure out tables.

C'ya!

Wahaika

[warriorqueen]

Hi there Wahaika,
great work! Thanks for posting the info - it's very useful to see it visualised like this.

I noticed that your regime mentions taking:

Fenugreek 3 grams, 3 times per day

Doesn't this translate into 3000mg x 3 = 9000 mg in total? ... I've never been great at metric conversions, but this seems like a heavy dose of the FG!
WQ

[Wahaika]

WQ,

oops, Thanks! I was thinking 3 capsules, not 3 grams, when I wrote that. It's fixed now.

Greenbush changed from 500mg capsules to 575mg capsules while we were in mid program. Looks like that may have been the reason for the stall. We knew that 3000 to 5175 was quite a jump but since she did not appear to be stalled (at first) we figured it wasn't that big of a problem.

Live and learn.

Thanks for catching that!

Wahaika

[Venus]

Hi Wahaika,

Thank you for posting your wife's routine like that. I'm sure it will be very helpful and encouraging, especially to those of us who have been struggling like myself.

I'm just curious if your wife takes any other supplements i.e multivitamin, pregnenolone, MSM, ALA, arginine/orthinine, etc? Does she ever use progesterone at all? Has she ever taken any breaks or has she stuck with the program the entire time?

Sorry for all the additional questions.

Venus

[Wahaika]

Hello Venus,

My wife does take a multivitamin and she was taking an HGH amino acid complex:
L-Ornathine
L-Arginine
L-Lysine
L-Phenylalanine

As I remember, it was about a month before the break and she had stalled. It seemed like this stopped her even more, but at this point I wouldn't pin it on this stuff until at least 6 weeks had passed. I don't think she took it for that long.

If/when she does, I think she is going to add L-Glutamine and L-Carnatine Tartrate. I think that both of those will be a big help, especially the L-Carnatine Tartrate.

She does not use progesterone at all. We found a real good one in the health food store here but have not bought it yet. She would only use that about one time per three months or so if I remember right.

She started in January of last year and went for nine months before taking a break. She has been off her break for just over a week.

I need to go back and separate out her internal regimine prior to her break from what she is doing now. The only real difference is the dosages. She was taking 3 575mg capsules 3 times per day, and now she is going to stop at two and then adjust up.

No problem on the questions. Everyone here has been great when I have had questions. Good luck!

Wahaika