Need help starting a routine

[flatmama]

I know there's probably alot of advise out there that I could find to help get me started but sadly I'm still stuck in the past with dial-up internet and don't really have the patients to search or the time with 2 kids. If anyone can offer some advise on what I can do to start that would be great. I've breastfed 2 kids both for over 10 months. Luckily I have been blessed with good genes and have absolutely no sagging (thanks mom!). I was never well-endowed to begin with. I've always been a small 34 A even before children. I'm 5' 10", 130lbs...very active, run 3 miles 4 times a week. No health problems. I've been doing breast massage for awhile because it was recommended by my doctor while I was breastfeeding to help with ducts constantly being clogged but now that I'm done breast feeding I'd like to start on the herbs. I'm not looking to get large but honestly it would be nice to have a nice set of B's. I had large C's after I had my baby even before my milk came in but sadly that was all offset by the extra baby weight. Those would be nice again but I just want to look like a woman in a bathingsuit. I've thought about implants but I hate the way that they look. I really want REAL breasts. Can anyone please give me advise on what herbs to take and the best way to get started? Also will NBE cause me to gain weight? Is there anything than can effect NBE results? Any help would be appreciated!!!

[Wahaika]

Massage with herbs is one of the most effective things you can do for BE, and BE usually will get you an additional 5 to 10 lbs. If you are already running/working out, you may not have a problem.

How long has it been since you dried up?

If you want to try something that has not been tried before, but is not a great departure from the usual methods, a routine where you start with massage for the first month, then ramp up internals slowly, may help with the weight concerns. But the facts of life are that fatty places on the body are magnets for more fat.

Do you live above the equator?

Wahaika

[flatmama]

Thank for responding Wahaika....
Well, to answer your first question...I don't completely dry up. My body will continue to produce milk until I get pregnant again. (I didn't get pregnant until 2 years after I finished nursing my first child and still had small amounts of milk) Got that from my mom....she still produced milk many years after finishing having children..although it is in small amounts. I'm hoping that doesn't cause me any problems growing. I have been able to find a couple places that mentioned that an short term milk production is pretty normal for moms when they start BE. Is this true?
I live above the equator yes.
I'm hoping the exercise doesn't cause too many problems either. I have been losing weight doing it but that's not my goal. I'm just trying to get healthier. I have heard that BE doesn't work if you are losing weight, althougth I'm sure the weight loss will stop soon since I'm at the low end of a healthy weight and BMI for my height.
I'm really hoping someone can help direct me toward the right herbs I need to take. I'm really thinking I'm going to take some Fenugreek...haven't decided on dosage yet. I'll slowly increase the amount until I find where my body is comfortable. I have PMS and I think I've heard that wild yam is good for this. Am I right? other than that, I'm not really sure where to go from there.
Any help would greatly be appreciated!

[Wahaika]

flatmama,

The milk supply may be still happening because your prolactin levels are still high. To decrease prolactin levels you can try increasing dopamine levels. One herb that accomplishes this is Vitex. It takes a couple of months to kick in but may just do the job.

As far as weight loss goes, it will help the overall effort once the weight is down. The best thing to do is to wait until you are down to the weight that you want to be. Other than that, the idea is to ramp up on dosages until you get to a step in your progression or a maximum for that herb. See Madredesiete's routine for an example of this.

I would recommend:
Fenugreek
Fennel
Saw Palmetto
Wild Yam

1000mg of borage oil at bedtime.
a multivitamin with a B Complex in it.
500 to 750mg of GABA per day might also help.

... With maximums of 2500mg per day. You take these in 500mg capsules or the equivalent in extracts (Greenbush is the best).

Massage with booby batter that is in Reply #2 in this thread:
beboard.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=Routines&action=display&thread=3015

Eat healthy and get plenty of sleep.

Fenugreek and fennel are galactagogues and will tend to make you lactate if you are not dried up. So expect that. You will have to play it by ear. Vitex also increases progesterone receptor sensitivity in the hypothalamus so your growth is not likely to happen while on Vitex. But some women (extremely few) do grow on Vitex so this may be something to try in your case.

Wahaika

[flatmama]

Thanks so much.
I do have a question about the prolactin though. I have heard that prolactin was good for BE. I'm not sure though because well, I'm still new here and there's so much different info out there. (Hence the reason I came here, seemed to be a lot better than other stuff out there, more consistent)Is it true that it's good? or can too much stop the possiblity of growth?
Are there other brands of herbs that you recommend? because we have some good stores around here that I've bought some herbs from before.(Had to take fenugreek during breastfeeding to keep up milk supply, pediatrician recommended it so I'm a little familiar with that herb at least)
I'm at the weight I want to be, my body just seems to be letting go of weight since I've dried up to just a few drops of milk, and of crouse my appetite in dramatically reduced also, but I'm still eating healthy and everything. I just didn't realize I ate so much while I was nursing.
Are there certain factors that can make BE more successful for some people and not others?

[Wenonae]

Hi FM -

Here's my spin on your current state and BE needs. Ya know...I REALLY need to do a post in the Newbies section with- if your health is this...try this BE, if you still leak...do this BE. Some day when I have all that ample time...LOL. Ugh.

Anyways, you're so rite..raised prolactin is good for BE and it's a really clue since you're still producing milk. BE is about being hormonally health, albeit a little imbalanced (we WANT higher estrogen, we WANT highest prolactin, we WANT lower testosterone levels.)

That being said- I'd recommend for your BE (esp since you grew will preggers, have PMS now...and "other things" ) 2 items:

-Pueraria Mirifeca (via Mirifem cream)
-Drinking 1/2 cup cranberry juice every day during your period in the morning.
-No massage is needed (of course, since you already have high prolactin)

NO to fenugreek (your prolactin is already high enough! Fenu helps raise estro + prolactin)
NO to wild yam (you don't need to raise your progesterone levels)
NO to EPO (you don't mention any health issues which EPO would help- actually this make PMS worse)
NO to Red Clover (usually recommend that to PMS ladies) because your prolactin is so high already.


5 month Regimen schedule-
For all amount recommendations, rub amount between palms and apply to both breasts.

Month 1 (start during your follicular)-Mirifem cream (1/3 tip of last joint on your pinkie) at night on breasts before bed
Month 2-1/2 tip of last joint on pinkie, at nite b4 bed
Month 3- same as Month 2
Month 4- 2/3 tip..., at nite b4 bed
Month 5- 1/3 tip

www.mirifem.com takes about 1-2 weeks to come.
Looks like this will net you about 2.3 cups 7 months after you start this regimen.

G'luck!
Wen'

[Wenonae]

BTW, you should wind up only using about 2 tubes of Mirifem....

Wen'

[Wahaika]

Mirifem has a success record of almost zero.

[flatmama]

Thanks Wen
I can't really afford the mirifem cream at this time though. Is there any other suggestions that you have?
As far as the hormone inbalance goes, it's not going to make me crazy moody or something right?
I've spent many years in that situation (although must have been the wrong imbalance since breasts never grew) until my last pregnancy (girl) and nursing, which somehow put my hormones in a good place to where I'm only really moody 1 week out of my cycle (pms)instead of 3. My first pregnancy just made them worse (boy). With my boy I never grew during pregnancy(well I guess small A's to full A's but probably just more from the weight gain) and only had large b's while nursing (because of milk). With my girl however, I had small c's by the time I was 4 months pregnant (which was great cuz I didn't look pregnant yet) and large c's by the end. I gained 35 lbs with both pregnancies and lost all the weight after each, and the breasts by the time I was done nursing.
I don't know if any of this really helps understand my hormone situtation but maybe it will. Oh yeah, I guess I should mention that I'm only 26.

[flatmama]

I thought maybe I should mention also that I liked the way I felt when I was taking the Fenugreek regularly during nursing. Don't know if that makes a difference.

[Wahaika]

Borage oil helps PMS.

[flatmama]

This might seem like a crazy question but how will I know if BE is working (before I see noticable results)? Just curious also, Wakaika how do you know so much about BE?
Since I'm pretty small and thin are my chances of success worse? Also, how long should I wait to make adjustments in dosage? Does my body need a certain amount of time to adjust? For example, while I was taking fenugreek nursing, if I took 4- 620mg pills a day (spreadout)I ended up with a headache but if I just took 3 I didn't. Does this mean 4 were too many? or did I need to give my body some time to adjust to that dose first? (I slowly worked the dose up) I like to try to just listen to my body but I'm not sure if I just need to give it time with something like this.
Wen, As far as stopping breast massage goes, I'd really prefer not to. If I miss a day my chest just aches. (probably because of my bras)
---------
Right now I've decided that I'm going to start out on fenugreek and slowly work that dose up. The more I think about all the options I keep being pulled that way. I don't know if that's because I've previously used Fenugreek or not but I'll just try to stick with my instinct. (Hopefully it's not too off)
After reaching a good dose on that add SP, & Wild Yam...and see how I do on them. Most likely I will end up adding the fennel in there too, just not sure when.
I'm already on a multivitamin, still prenatals, they seem to work better with my body pregnant or not. (always take them)
I'm also taking Omega-3 fish oil supplements. Will these be a problem during BE?
I also take extra 500 mg vitamin C a day (Again just makes my body feel like it's in a good place) and 600 mg Calcium a day. (really cut back on milk and dairy cravings, no longer drink half a gallon every day) Will any of these cause problems?
For the most part I eat fairly healthy, except the bit of sugars every now and then.
I'm in a good place with myself and my body right now so if this doesn't work out, it's not the end of the world. If it does however, that'll just be the icing on the cake!!
Thanks for all the help you have given me and probably the help you will give me, as I'm feeling pretty clueless about all of this. Wish me luck!!!

[flatmama]

fail to mention, Left breast 1/2" smaller than right. How can I even them out???

[Wenonae]

I understand you don't have a lot of time, but most of your ?s have been answered on the board already. In short, if you feel like crap after you take or do something- you've prolly done too much or it's the wrong thing.

Pretty much do a regimen for 3-6 months. If you don't have sensations and a little bit of fullness by then, then something needs to change. Ramp up during your period when you up your doses.

As far as a Mirifem substitute...the herb itself is prohibited from being sent directly to US folks, so besides a cheaper not as effective version...you're outta luck. $250 for BE vs. $10,000 for sugeries+ isn't a bad deal.

Also, to even out breasts..they will generally do that on their own naturally (when on right BE stuff). However, breasts are not perfectly exact..usually within 1/3 cup size is normal.

Finally, you've grown breast-wise depending on what the sex of the child was. I could go on to postulate..but LOL, I'm outta time myself. I'd just take that information to say that the more estrogen you have- the better. The fenugreek was good for laction, but I wouldn't say it's enough to grow enough fats for breast size (if you're breasts are always REALLY sore, and you HAVE to massage- your glands are OVER-stimulated which isn't a good thing because it could cause other hormones, systems in your body to overcompensate and you won't have BE progress). PM is REALLY full of estrogenic stuffs.

G'luck with the current efforts!
Wen'

[flatmama]

I only massage because I wear those horrible underwire, padded push-up bras. (I know I should definitly switch) It just helps with the soreness from them at the end of the day. (Yes, I know I need to get a better bra!)
Thanks Wen, I will try to find what I can out each day. If I have questions along the way of things I am experiencing that I'm not sure about I will ask those.
I know that breats usually are slightly different sizes. It's probably just so noticable for me now because one side is really flat as compared to some roundness on the other side.
Good to know that about the estrogen, thanks.
Thanks again!