susana's routine

[Wenonae]

Yea, sounds like you have the back-fat thing going on (I had some of that while on BC). I think you should stay OFF the fenugreek and hold onto what you have. But you may want to consider adding just a little bit of wild yam (500mg/daily either morn or nite) to reduce the back-fat thing but still allow you move forward with BE.

Wen'

[Wahaika]

>>"about the order of growing, is it always like that? i supposed that was something more cyclical. I have this impression that my breasts feel kinda weird, sometimes very dense, sometimes kinda flabby, but they seem to be growing everywhere"

I don't know that it is always like that but it is a normal growing cycle.

It looks like from 4/1 to 4/28 you increased by 1 inch. You went from 32B to 32C! You are full 32C at mid June. Currently at 36 inches from 34. Total of 2 inches. Keep up on those width measurements. You could also add some top and bottom measurements if you wanted to track how they fill out.

The fat on the ribs is normal. It is just part of the price to be paid. Keep on doing what you are doing and you can take a break or be on maintenance dosages as Winter comes on. Right now it is mid Summer. The way you are doing your routine - doing things and seeing how they affect you - is exactly the right way to do it. You're doing it right!

I think that adding some Wild Yam in the luteal phase could be good. Adding some goat's rue extract would be very good. You might go back to your original massage routine but add fenugreek extract to it. A very good PM cream is made by St. Herb. You might also add some Borage oil to the internals unless you are still taking your Omega 3-6-9. Also add a good multivitamin that contains a B complex.

Keep up that massage! Getting the herbs in transdermally is one of the most effective things you can do! I cannot over emphasize the importance of massageing in the herbs (PM included).

In what way does fenugreek adversely affect you?

[susana]

Wenonae

I'm not very worried with the back fat (yet), but why would wild yam reduce it? or will it just prevent adding up more?

Wahaika

I'm not sure how to take the top measurement, I only took now the horizontal measurements 'cause my breast are no longer merged into my ribs and i can tell where they start and end, but I'm still not sure where to measure vertically I don't think I'm truly a full 32C yet, In diameter of the breast probably since I spend the day moving the wires to the side so they don't hurt me, but with molded bras I can tell that I lake a bit of projection (although the tops don't gap or anything, but most bras I find at that size are full cupped and they look weird on me), so I'm keeping on BE until they go front (I supposed that's more of a vertical growth).

About the herbs:
-Wild Yam - why only at luteal? goat's rue extract...humm, I'll find that
-St Herb is unfortunately out of my current bugdget , but i'll try to find fenugreek extract to add to my massage routine but I'm not sure that I'll find it this time
-I'll add a multivitamin and the borage oil to the routine

About the fenugreek, I started having my heart racing while exercising (I didn't change my exercise routine) and I was also feeling very sleepy/tired. at first I removed the nettle root that was the last added herb, but it didn't change anything, so I stopped fenugreek for a few days and as it stopped the signs I went back on the nettle root, and that gave me back the feelings on my chest. I think that my body over 1800 mgs of fenugreek doesn't even know how to use it (no growth signs and negative side effects).

thank you both for the input

[Wenonae]

Hi Susana-

Yeah..the wild yam is similar in function in some women to the hormone progesterone. Progesterone in general prevents fat storage (especially in breasts). I get the feeling you'll just keep growing in backfat (up to 38 band or so), before storing in the breast area. So just a little bit daily will help keep the fats from storing generally everywhere, but will allow storage in the breast area since your regimen overall seems good.

Fenugreek- isn't mandatory for successful BE (it's not always abt the herb, but more about what your overall health is like and previous hormonal balance). With the signs you've listed above, I'd just refrain from the fenu. The borage oil...really that's more a health herb and I'm not seeing that for you either. BE list: wild yam, yellow dock (help body make healthy fat cells, 1000mg/day), and a multi w/ good levels of zinc.

G'luck!
Wen'

[susana]

hi Wen

measuring my ribs (under the bust line) I'm still between a 30 and a 32 band, so adding up to a 38 band worries me.

Anyway, wild yam sounds a good idea because I'm afraid I'll get fat on my lower body (I wanna balance my bottom, if it grows it's no good), so i'll add a little and see what gives.

Isn't borage oil good for PMS and such? Fenugreek...i'll stay off of it for now. won't yellow dock reverse the wild yam action, or at least stall it? I don't know if I'm explaining myself...

the multivitamin sounds a great idea because I kinda exercise 5 times a week, it's a good idea even if it wasn't for BE. Talking about it, do you think protein shakes (with whey protein) would be good in terms of BE? I know it's more usual on vegetarian's routines, but I don't know, I just wanna ask.

thank you again for the information

[Wenonae]

Borage oil /EPO/ Flax seed oil...usually worsens PMS if you have it (that was my case and so many others who post about it). As far as I can surmise, this is because the GLA lowers the effect of your natural progesterone in your system.

Whey protein shakes- great while on BE for anyone. I used them b/c I wasn't a big meat-eater but needed the protein. For your case, get between 20-28g of protein daily. That's easily one shake and a coupla chicken nuggets . Don't OD on the protein, it can be converted to excess fat if your system can't process it well.

Yellow dock- you're using it for the iron and potassium help. W/Y won't negate b/c it more simulates hormones vs. minerals.

Wen'

[Wahaika]

What you describe almost sounds like a lactic acid problem, or more likely, a low carb problem. Fenugreek naturally lowers blood sugar levels. If you are suffering from low glycogen levels it seems to me that it would show up early in an exercise regimen. Try upping your general carb intake and put your fenugreek back up to 1800mg. Then, with regard to exercise, eat something with starchy carbs and protein 30 minutes before a workout - like a peanut butter sandwich or two - and see if it makes a difference. If fenugreek was the culprit, it could be because fenugreek lowered your blood sugar too far, or at worse, maybe you have an allergy to fenugreek. A test like this should take away the problem unless it is an allergy.

As to borage oil or EPO (GLA) being bad for PMS, I think that some women may be sensitive to it, but I know of one woman who took 2 grams per day, had no problems, and grew very well. Here are some sites that explain why Borage oil is good for PMS. I'm not sure where the informaton comes from that says Borage/EPO/GLA is bad for PMS.

www.fatsforhealth.com/library/libitems/pms.php

www.fatsforhealth.com/library/libitems/PMS-notinhead.php

www.bodyandfitness.com/Information/Health/Research/evening.htm

www.cassmd.com/Products/pms.balance.html

www.nutrasanus.com/complete-efa-liquid.html

www.contentcaboodle.com/health-and-fitness/the-healing-power-of-borage-oils-gla.html

www.truehealth.org/ahealn20.html

www.westonaprice.org/women/natural_pms.html

Given that I have seen an example or two where it was "bad" (I don't remember if PMS was the issue) I would be very interested in why it seems to be "bad" when some women don't have a problem with it. There must be more to that puzzle.

Whey protein is the best for general health. Absolutely no question about it. But for BE, I would say to try a soy protein isolate and see if it gives the same results but also helps with BE.

Wahaika

[susana]

I decided to stick with what I was doing (nettle root + pumpkin seeds + multivitamin) cause I was feeling a lot of something in my breasts after my period stopped (can remember the names, sorry).
But now I have this major rash one my face (ok, it's not that major, I just ended puberty a long time ago for this many pimpling ): I've been putting aloe vera gel on my face and it has helped (I don't like make up, so I have to keep my face decent).

Any thoughs on that?

tks