How increased HgH = BE progress

[Wenonae]

This thread awaits the study Wahaika has found that shows effective BE results gained by increasing HgH levels using supplements like L'glutamine which result in permanent breast growth.

Based on experience and my own research, I don't think raising HgH directly is a must, but rather it should be induced as a result of the using your correct estrogenic/progestenic sources, supplements, or triggers. So, I think it would be very ,very interesting to see whatever information is shared.

wahaika said:

......The benefits of higher GLA are a chain that points to both aromatase and HGH.

i'm about to write this all up for Fawn in an older message, but the bottom line is that it is a theoretical chain linked together by precursors and secretagogues.

See this link and follow all the links:
beboard.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1126664854

For HGH, Prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) has been shown to start up HGH production. PGE2 is in meats and could be manufactured by the body from AA Archidonic Acid, which it makes from GLA.

But mostly, borage oil just works. It has a good track record.

The L-Glutamine also cranks HGH. I was reading the other day that in the cases that were being tested, HGH rose by about 3 times due to L-Glutamine supplimentation. Other amino acids have this effect:
Arginine (Arginine Pyroglutamate if you take L-Lysine)
L-Glutamine
L-Glycine
Gama aminobutyric acid (GABA)
L-Lysine
L-ornithine
...and there are others as well, and there are other substances that raise HGH. L-Glutamine was a simple one that I wanted to mention, but the idea is to get HGH going. I would say start with 500mg to 1000mg at night before bedtime. Get plenty of sleep and get to bed on time, like 10:00 or before. I'll be posting in the general section in about a week on an HGH consideration in all routines. I just want to make sure I have all of my information backed up with plenty of support material. I also need to talk to Fawn about carrying amino acids and a few other things on her site if she is not too busy and is willing to do it.

Wahaika

wahaika said:

....But for now, I agree that avoiding it is probably the best thing to do. I should not have brought it up just yet.

Wahaika


P.S. The studies were done on men and women.

[Wahaika]

Yes indeed, HGH/IGF-1 are a part of the equation that those who are in the AAA-AA category will especially be interested. HGH is a big player in breast development. However, it will not be simplistic as HGH is also a well established fat burner!! And how can a fat burner like HGH take part in breast growth?

stay tuned - probably after the first of the year.

Wahaika

[Wahaika]

I thought that the entire quote would be appropriate for this thread:

wahaika said:

Cherub,

My wife's lost a full cup size before gaining three sizes, and she is not the only one to experience initial loss followed by growth. To lose early on is not necessarily a sign of failure. But, to be safe, discontinue the L-Glutamine for now until the rest of the HGH puzzle is being discussed and the rest of your personal puzzle (i.e. are you exercising heavily such as practicing a martial art, which WILL help conditions to exist for HGH to burn fat) is known.

Wenonae,

L-Glutamine may have raised your HGH levels at a time when your cortisol levels and catecholamines were down while thyroid levels and metabolism were up. Your diet may have been low calorie at that time. Your exercise would definitely be a factor. Many factors could have contributed to this. If you would like some help figuring out how L-glutamine alone may have had this effect, let me know in another thread and I will be happy to help you out.

But for now, I agree that avoiding it is probably the best thing to do. I should not have brought it up just yet.

Wahaika


P.S. The studies were done on men and women.

Wahaika

[Wahaika]

Also will be awaiting the EE study results: (formatting of text removed, some emphasis added)

wenonae said:

Participants should be posting in the Routines section regarding their progress.
Check there for their updates. The final stats will be posted here beginning January, 2007

A list of those who have to date posted about their EE routine:
NQ, boobieholic, ff2006,em357304, connie, rkai93, Akira, Fawn, 4pomegranate, chloe105, Velvetblasphemy, Akaisha, ChloeO, Odessa, Caligirl, Zanyzara

****************************************************************************************************

and

wenonae said:

So, have I used this? Yep. I grew 1.33 cups in 5 months with little effort. I’m due to my last set of doses in November which should be effective for 1.75cups of progress in 4-5 months time. Will it work for all? Nope, there isn’t one solution for everyone - but I’ll tell you what- I think this will do a lot more for more people than all the other ready-mades out there; so far it seems to be helping 70% of those who use it and it works in spite of numbers of factors (excess estrogen, dominant estrogen, sugar imbalance, Depo, using general instructions, etc.). What are the reported side effects? Minimal- some zits during first cycle, tiredness during first week after dose 1-4 days. However, within the 1st month you generally have soreness, sensations, and some physical progress.

[ff2006]

Wahaika, if it's not too nosy, how long did your wife have to wait before she regained the cup size that was lost?

Many thanks,
Kate

[bonnette]

i just wanted to comment that i noticed on Eve's forum ladies on bovie ovary are also taking L-tyrosine and i haven't seen them mentioning about the decrease.

Wahaika, do u think the vegetarians would specially benefit from it? Or is borage oil or EPO enough for getting the GLN?

Bonnette

[Wahaika]

Kate,

I am pretty sure that the round trip down then back up was one month.

Wahaika

[Wahaika]

Bonnette,

The decrease happened with herbs. We took it as a sign that it was working and that direction just needed to happen first.

Do I think that vegetarians would benefit from using BO? It's possible. The resident expert on BO is Fawn. I would refer the question to her. As for GLA, I don't believe BO is a source for GLA. But I do think that BO users would benefit from an HgH/IGF-1 component to their routines. At least it would fit in nicely with the protein powder component.

Wahaika

[bonnette]

iWahaika,'m sorry, i wrote it in the night so it got a bit misleading . what i wanted to ask is if the L-tyrosine or GLA-supplements are much more important to vegetarians?

Bonnette

[Wahaika]

Yes, I think L-Tyrosine and GLA oils would benefit vegetarians greatly. But the method of determining how beneficial they are is the same. They have to be tried. Currently, L-Tyrosine is used for those with low temps, as is kelp.

[fawnmarie]

Okay - what the HECK is going on here!

You guys are talking HGH behind my back?

HGH ISN'T a fat burner - it's a tissue builder, including muscle which naturally raises metabolic rate (which will increase fat burning in a state of caloric deficit).

Which studies state that prostaglandin E2 increases HGH production?

Not all amino acids increase HGH - arginine, ornithine, gaba, glutamine - yeah, heard of glutamine but can't remember why I don't recommend it.

Lysine does not increase hgh (and if you disagree please provide references).


Does SOMEBODY want to point me to the origin of this debate, I'm sure I can pick it to death.



Fawn

[Wahaika]

Howdy Fawn.

>>"Does SOMEBODY want to point me to the origin of this debate, I'm sure I can pick it to death."

Go for it.

I guess that the debate technically started here:

beboard.proboards107.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=Routines&thread=1151343441&post=1165888025

But, since I wasn't ready to present the issue in the form of a 'debate', I backed off. Wen started this thread for reasons only she knows. I was through with it for the moment.

I have no intention of presenting any of it in this thread. I'll start a new one when I am ready.

But, now that someone else wants to debate it, and since we all learn a lot from debate, go for it.

By the way, what is it that you want to debate/"pick to death?"

>>"HGH ISN'T a fat burner - it's a tissue builder, including muscle which naturally raises metabolic rate (which will increase fat burning in a state of caloric deficit)."

It's both as you just stated and there is more to it. A simple statement "HGH is not a fat burner" would be incorrect.

>>"Which studies state that prostaglandin E2 increases HGH production?"

Enter the following into a google search:
prostaglandin E2 stimulates insulin-like growth factor

Two PubMed articles I was looking at are here:
"Prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) stimulates collagen and proteoglycan synthesis in cartilage via an autocrine feedback loop involving IGF-1."
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=9138096

"We conclude that PGE2 may act as a secretagogue of IGF-1 and that the latter growth factor may mediate, via an autocrine loop and the IGF-1 receptor, at least some of the anabolic effects of the eicosanoid on cartilage metabolism."
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8912808&dopt=Abstract

And yes, I am treating IGF-1 and HGH similarly since studies are probably measuring IGF-1 but not HGH so that is all they report, and I am not aware of any source of IGF-1 other than HGH. I am also aware of the studies observing cartliage metabolism.

>>"Not all amino acids increase HGH - arginine, ornithine, gaba, glutamine - yeah, heard of glutamine but can't remember why I don't recommend it."

Please provide your reason and references. I am interested.

>>"Lysine does not increase hgh (and if you disagree please provide references)."

It does when combined with L-Arginine Pyroglutamate. You can do some searching on it if you have the interest. Here is a google search. Just go to google.com and enter:
Arginine Pyroglutamate Lysine HGH

See also, PubMed article:

"The results showed that oral administration of a combination of two amino acids (1200 mg 1-lysine plus 1200 mg 1-arginine) provoked a release of pituitary somatotropin and insulin. This phenomenon was reproducible and the growth hormone secreted in response to this stimulation had biological activity (as demonstrated by a radioreceptor assay and somatomedin induction). The effect appeared to be specific to the combination of the two amino acids; neither of the amino acids demonstrated appreciable stimulating activity when administered alone, even at the same doses."
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&list_uids=6790230&cmd=Retrieve&indexed=google

A copy of the study results can also be seen here:
ironpower.biz/gh_university_study.pdf

If some of the pubmed links do not work due to this message board software, then cut&paste the entire links into your browser and go there manually.

Wahaika

[fawnmarie]

Yes, you had mentioned the prostaglandin E2 thing before and I was looking for a reference, thanks for providing.

Will look over the rest as time permits.

No debate, just discussion really, but was very curious about the PE2 thing.

[fawnmarie]

wahaika said:

>>"HGH ISN'T a fat burner - it's a tissue builder, including muscle which naturally raises metabolic rate (which will increase fat burning in a state of caloric deficit)."

It's both as you just stated and there is more to it. A simple statement "HGH is not a fat burner" would be incorrect.
Wahaika

You say I'm incorrect about it not being a fat-burner, but what's the reference for saying so. Please provide one.

Tnx.

[fawnmarie]

wahaika said:

And yes, I am treating IGF-1 and HGH similarly since studies are probably measuring IGF-1 but not HGH so that is all they report, and I am not aware of any source of IGF-1 other than HGH. I am also aware of the studies observing cartliage metabolism.
Wahaika

Yah - as I recall, IGF is manufactured in the liver from existing HGH supplies, and IGF is vital for the whole BE process.

No debate on that one.

Arginine is a secretagogue for HGH even without lysine, as is ornithine (which is actually made from arginine). Not sure you'll get better results from adding lysine, but people are always looking for new/better/more complete information on the HGH issue.

Fawn