Mandy's routine

[mandy]

Ok, right now I am taking
morning - (1) 575mg Fenugreek,
(1) 575 mg Saw Palmetto
(1) 575 mg Wild Yam
(1) 1300mg Borage Oil
2 1/2 mg DHEA
500 mg L-Arginine
"Thyroid Essentials" vitamin supplement (it has lots of B vitamins, zinc and L-Tyrosine
Noonish - (2) 575 mg Saw Palmetto
(2) 575 mg Wild Yam
(2) 575 mg Fenugreek
1300 mg Borage Oil
Evening - (2) 575 mg Saw Palmetto
(2) 575 mg Wild Yam
(2) 575 mg Fenugreek
1300 mg Borage Oil
Bedtime - 1-2 mg melatonin to help me sleep

However, I have ordered some Aldactone to help me convert these homones because this summer when I took the DHEA, I got pimples, and was irritable, easily got angry. So I will be trying that whenever it comes in. And... I am going to see if I can try some meds for my thyroid because my temp consistantly runs 95 - 96 degrees! Taking the thyroid vitamin doesn't help much. Another note, I am trying some exercise and let me tell you... I am seriously out of shape! My thighs are killing me, really every time I try to stand up... it is pretty pathetic!
So, does anyone have any comments or advice on my routine?
Wahaika...? Wenonea? Fawn?
I need some opinions to make sure I don't turn myself into a Troll trying out all of these supplements. ;D

[mandy]

Also, here are my stats to help anybody out who has any comments for me. And let me add that I appreciate the time people take to give their 2 cents worth, or is that offensive? Maybe 2 cents is not enough. You know what I mean, I have a problem with over thinking things. Bottom line, I appreciate all responses. ;D



Sex: Female
Age: 37
Number of Children:5
breast fed last one for 12 months
Height: 5' 5"
Weight: 150
Bust: 37"
underbust: 33.5"
Cup: B
Width Measurement each side:8 1/2"

Notes: arthritis, slow metabolism, get cold easily etc.

[Wahaika]

This looks like a pretty well though out routine.

I do have a bunch of red flags and sirens going off when I see someone using spironolactone (Aldactone). See this article:
www.medicinenet.com/spironolactone-oral/article.htm

Out of curiosity, what is your reasoning for using Aldactone? If you keep it in your routine, be sure to list your specific usage of it in your routine. The effect on elevated IGF-1 levels should help the BE effort, but the side effects look a bit harsh. Be sure to consult your doctor on this one.

Your routine:

Too much Borage oil. 1000mg before bedtime once per day is plenty. Be sure to also take a good multivitamin with 15mg or so of zinc and a B-Complex.

The thyroid essentials and melatonin will help on the BE effort, but there are probably ways to increase melatonin naturally. Taking it externally may throw off your ability to produce it.

1. Start on cycle day 1.

2. Use a ramp up method of determining dosages.

Ramp-Up Method:
Start on day one. Go by 575mg steps 3 times per day. i.e. Ramp to 575 mg three times per day in month one. Maintain levels and evaluate growth signs (aches and deep itches). Ramp to 1000 mg three times per day in month 2. Maintain and evaluate growth signs. etc.
The following is in either 500mg or 575mg capsules. If you use Greenbush's 575 mg capsules, watch out for the total daily amount of each herb!

**The herbs should be taken on an empty stomach if possible, so "with meals" is discouraged. 30 minutes before a meal is better. The Borage oil should be taken last thing at night before bedtime. The last dosage for the day is better taken at that time.

1 = one per day 30 minutes before breakfast.
2 = two per day, one before breakfast, one before lunch.
3 = three per day, one before breakfast, one before lunch, one before dinner or before retiring. (preferably before retiring)
4 = two before breakfast, one before lunch, one before dinner or before retiring. (preferably before retiring)
5 = two before breakfast, two before lunch, one before dinner or before retiring. (preferably before retiring)
etc.
etc.
etc.
For Greenbush capsules, I would say that 5 per day is a good stopping point for estrogenic herbs. Always ramp fenugreek first. WY may not be necessary by the time you get to it.


Here is the method of ramping up.

Day...FG...SP...WY
1.......1.....0.....0
2.......2.....0.....0
3.......3.....0.....0
4.......3.....0.....0
5.......3.....1.....0
6.......3.....2.....0
7.......3.....3.....0
8.......3.....3.....0
9.......3.....3.....1
10.....3.....3.....2
11.....3.....3.....3
12.....3.....3.....3
13.....3.....3.....3 Stay at this level for a week or so and evaluate any feelings of growth.
14.....3.....3.....3
15.....3.....3.....3
16.....3.....3.....3
17.....3.....3.....3
18 Skip this day. This is just an example. I'll explain it below.
19.....3.....3.....3 If no signs of growth, resume. If signs of growth, go only slightly further.
20.....4.....3.....3
21.....5.....3.....3
22.....6.....3.....3
etc.

Regarding "day 18." Skipping this day is to facilitate the LH spike and to clear receptors. It is not always day 18 for everyone but it's the best guess because it is really more of a prediction. This day is calculated from the total number of days from the previous cycle minus 14 days. So, if you have a 28 day cycle, 28 - 14 is 14. You would take nothing on day 14 in this case. I always wonder if 14 is a little too early. It could be that subtracting 10 days is better for some. Whatever works for you is best.

Adhere to Mominator's collection of "TIPS & TRICKS!"
beboard.proboards23.com/index.cgi?board=Routines&action=display&thread=1073503467

Getting plenty of sleep is a requirement, but the hours of sleep are also important. Should retire early, like 9 or 10:00PM rather than being a night owl.
----------------------------------


3. You need a topical component to your routine. BE Routines much better with topicals. Try this:

1/2 cup Olive Oil + 1/2 cup Fenugreek + 24 (1000mg) Borage Oil Caps steeped for one week minimum before first use. (The longer the better)

Get 2 8oz containers. Steep one while using the other.

Shake well.

Use a heated pad set to low. Massage in plenty of the concoction. Apply heat for 15 min. Leave on overnight if possible. A drop or two of DMSO could also be used, but save that for later.

You can use extracts like fenugreek or fennel along with some aloe vera gel.

Exercise is good! Just don't exercise for more than 30 minutes per day at a time. What exercises are you doing?

And remember, when you get your routine just right, you need to give it some time to work - like about 3 months, but you should have a pretty good idea by the start of cycle 2 if things are starting to work.


Wahaika

[mandy]

Thank you so much for all of the input. The reason why I want to try the Aldactone stuff is... I have 3 hairs on my chest that showed up without an invite and I am getting pimples - a few. Had a bit of hair loss with taking the DHEA over the summer and I definitely do not want any male side effects from taking either these supplements, the DHEA if I decide to continue with it. So far when I take it, I seem more argumentative with my husband and my marriage is more important to me so I really want to steer clear of anything that makes me grouchy or makes me yell at my kids and husband. However, I do not want any of those side effects of the Spironolactone / Aldactone either. Don't want the stuffy nose, sleepless nights, deepening voice... So maybe it won't work out. I will try it in very small doses and be very careful. I read that athletes take it both male and female and that female athletes take it while taking DHEA to counter the androgen effect.
The exercise I am trying out is from a 8min core exercise video. 8 min abs, 8 min buns, 8 min arms, 8 min thighs. Weights are utilized and though the exercise doesn't last long they really leave my muscles sore. I am so out of shape it is just ridiculous. Anyway I shall choose two a day probably and there will be a couple of days I don't do any exercises.
Thanks a whole bunch for correcting my borage oil consumption. I thought I needed it 3 times a day due to other people's routines.
Thank you also for the warning on the melatonin. I probably should wean myself off of that stuff. I worry too, about my body not making the DHEA anymore if I take that for too long. Maybe the Aldactone and the DHEA aren't worth it. If I do take them and the side effects go well (or I don't really have many) I would surely only do it for a couple months to boost physical benefits.
Another thing you should know, I drink a lot of beverages with caffeine. I don't know if that really makes a difference or not.
Thank you so much for your help

[Wenonae]

Heya Mandy-

So what's the interest in DHEA for?
Your general planned dosages look for a starting point.

Wen'

[mandy]

Well I started taking the DHEA because I took this online 800 question medical test and got a report stating that it sounded as if my adrenal glands were exhausted or had some exhaustion. MY energy was very low, and I was extremely sensitive to stress. The last few years have been very stressful I might add. so I tried the stuff (DHEA) about May of last year, and for a while it helped a bunch. I had lots more energy to take walks, do some major cleaning, paint the house etc. However near the end of the summer I noticed that I was getting lots more pimples, my voice seemed like it was changing a bit, and it was very easy for me to become angered, then I started getting dizzy when I didn't take it. So I figured my body was becoming dependant on it and I quit taking it. After about 2 -3 weeks the dizzyness cleared up and I felt better. Oh, yeah, and I was having nightmares and waking up a lot during the night while I took it. But, if the Aldactone would counter effect those side effects and if DHEA helps with BE... I still have a bunch of it in my cupboard in 5 mg tablets. I am also tired of feeling old and tired. I would love to find a bit of the fountain of youth to help me feel younger and more energized and help me more easily gain a sexy body. Lately I have not been taking any though because I don't want to take it without the Aldactone. What I have decided to do for now, is, I have an appt to check on my thyroid in a couple of weeks. So if I get on meds for my thyroid, I will see how that goes before I try the DHEA or Aldactone. So for now, the "DHEA - Aldactone Plan" is shelved. I would really like to see if I can get my thyroid fixed and see how I feel and see how the BE goes with that process also.
For now I am just taking :
Greenbush herbs
morning - (2) 575mg Fenugreek,
(2) 575 mg Saw Palmetto
(2) 575 mg Wild Yam
(1) 1300mg Borage Oil
500 mg L-Arginine
"Thyroid Essentials" vitamin supplement (it has lots of B vitamins, zinc and L-Tyrosine
a multi vitamin about every other day

Noonish - (2) 575 mg Saw Palmetto
(2) 575 mg Wild Yam
(2) 575 mg Fenugreek

Evening - (2) 575 mg Saw Palmetto
(2) 575 mg Wild Yam
(2) 575 mg Fenugreek
1300 mg Borage Oil
Bedtime - 1-2 mg melatonin to help me sleep

I do have some achy, sensations in my breasts and it is day 10 of my cycle, but they don't look any different. I still need to find a container to steep some herbs in oil for massage. There is so much to do in prep for Christmas etc (I have 5 kids and am involved in the community) that I barely manage to get these darn pills swallowed.
I am really proud of myself though, I managed to exercise again this morning even though the exercises are killing me. My legs and abs are so sore! Now I get to take Advil so I can get the rest of my stuff done.
Also, does anyone know, should I go ahead and keep upping my amount of herbs? How on earth do you know when you have the right amount?

[mandy]

I guess I will bump up to 3 a day of everything since it is day 10 of my cycle and hold there for a week (according to Wahaika's plan) and see how that goes.
Meaning 3 SP, 3 FEN, 3 WY 3 times a day. For some strange reason I feel very reluctant to drop the borage oil to only 1,000 mg at night. I dropped my noon borage oil. I think it's because for the last year I took 1,000 mg of Salmon oil every morning and the habit was somehow comforting.
This morning I woke up with a huge pimple on my thigh.
Can too much borage oil have negative effects?

[Wahaika]

You know that you have the right amount when you start feeling aches &/or itches, heaviness. Then you stay at those dosages until you grow a bit. Then you ramp up a little more ...& etc.

Your sore muscles could be due to lactic acid build up. There are several ways to combat this. The simplest is to get oxygen to the site and let it clear out on it's own. So, try this -- Exercise hard for 20 ot 30 minutes, then as a warm down, walk briskly and deep breathe for another 20 minutes. Thiis is what I do and it works every time.

Wahaika

[mandy]

Thanks a whole bunch! Moving at all is going to be scary because I don't like pain, but I am going to give it a shot. If it makes it worse, I do hope you expect me to complain. ;D I am going to do that right now. Thanks!

[Wenonae]

Mandy-

For exhausted adrenals, licorice root may be a better solution. It's also a BE-related herb. The only caution is that you can only take it for say 2 weeks at a time at 2-3grams/day then 2-3 weeks off. I would use it during the follicular part of the cycle.

I totally would not use DHEA for the adrenals. It's also not as BE-friendly. You're using SP, but boy, you'll increase your natural testosterone outut from DHEA. To offset that, you will need to supplement with additional SP. Then too much SP can cause weariness because since its geometry is similar to testosterone, the muscles will not uptake the real stuffs and you'll feel tired from that too.

To help your thyroid, I would look into using L-tyrosine. Use that like 1g a day. It directly supports thyroid function. I wouldn't do the thyroid glandular products out there unless you notice NO difference from the L-tyro.

Wen'

[Wenonae]

Also, yes- too much borage oil can cause pimples.

Also, after you get to a point where you have aches and physical progress, stary at the dosage. Do NOT ramp up again until you have a cycle of no physical progress. Then, ramp up during your follicular (Days 1-14).

Wen'

[mandy]

Thank you for your help! I am thinking after what you told me, that I'll just forget about the DHEA.
I do have some liqorice root, but never really took any. And I have been taking the L-Tyrosine and am not noticing any help from it. Maybe I am not taking enough of it... Let me check the amount...
Ok... it's 150 mg. so I can take up to 1,000 mg a day?
If so, maybe that'll make a difference.
The 150mg a day, definately doesn't seem to help, but if I up the dose maybe it will. I will try that before I take any thyroid meds. I would much rather try supplements first. I have had a couple of bad experiences with prescription drugs and now I have a problem trusting doctors because of it. The doctors I know will just prescribe anything will nilly it seems.
Also, I did some running around to help the oxygen travel to my thighs and that did seem to help with the pain. It's better than sitting in an arm chair feeling like an invalid because I am so old I can't exercise! My teenagers really like to tease me, so that doesn't help!

[mandy]

Update:
I have now increased to:
morning - (3) 575mg Fenugreek,
(3) 575 mg Saw Palmetto
(3) 575 mg Wild Yam
1000 mg L-Arginine (This seems to help my circulation and my libido as well)
(2)"Thyroid Essentials" vitamin supplement (it has lots of B vitamins, zinc and
1,000 mg L-Tyrosine

Noonish - (3) 575 mg Saw Palmetto
(3) 575 mg Wild Yam
(3) 575 mg Fenugreek

Evening - (3) 575 mg Saw Palmetto
(3) 575 mg Wild Yam
(3) 575 mg Fenugreek
1300 mg Borage Oil
Bedtime - 1-2 mg melatonin life has been very busy and I have not been able to bring myself to cut down the melatonin. I really look forward to a good nights sleep.

I have been having achy sore breasts that feel heavy at the end of the day when I take my bra off, it's like... "Whooo! What a relief to take that bra off! And they feel heavyish" but I can't tell that they look any different or measure any different.
I am on day 14 of my cycle and really feel like a dog in heat, please forgive my grossness. It is kind of nice having my sex drive back though. Has anyone else noticed those side effects? I plan on skipping the herbs on day 16 because in the past that is the day I have ovulated. This is per Wahaika's instructions.
Also, I have my booby batter steeping and plan on using it for the first time tonight. It looks nasty though. Would it be counter poductive if I added my own essential oils to scent it?
And another note - swallowing all of these pills is a major chore. Once I finish them up I am really tempted to switch to liquid extracts. I often feel like I have one stuck in my throat!
Maybe at that point or even now someone on here would know the dose conversion for Greenbush's liquid extracts for the pills.

[Wahaika]

Looks like you're on the right track and getting density growth first.

Greenbush extract strength conversion is 1 ml of extract to 1000mg of powdered herb.

"They are now available in pure, alcohol free, Bio-chelated* form with 1:1 herb strength- 1000mg/ml!"
( www.greenbush.net/newliqex.html )


Wahaika

[mandy]

Thank you! That is very helpful!
I am sooo looking forward to swallowing less pills! Even if I could do like half and half or something. We'll see how expensive it is. Now, you have been so helpful... If you could just help me manage my time better... I'd be all set for the New Year!
Just joking. ;D