So many questions!

[alekia]

Hi everyone. I am new here, and have some questions. First some background ...

I am 36, 5'7", 115 lbs, fairly small frame, 36AA.

I started the following routine About 2 weeks ago:

Morning:
375 mg red clover
620 mg fenugreek
1160 mg saw palmetto
1300 mg evening primrose
Massage with lotion mixed with fenugreek extract

Mid day:
375 mg red clover
620 mg fenugreek
1160 mg saw palmetto

Evening:
375 mg red clover
620 mg fenugreek
1160 mg saw palmetto
1300 mg evening primrose
2000 mg Gaba
Massage with fenugreek and licorice
Heating pad

I had to have some minor surgery about a week after I started, I didn't miss any doses, but did miss a couple of days of massage. I was under general anaesthesia, and I know this throws a body off.

I also realized yesterday that the breakfast I have almost every day is soy based protien, so I am switching that.

SO, now for the questions ...

How long do I stick with this routine until I decide if it is working or not? When do most people start to see changes. I thought I felt some growing pains yesterday, but I think that it was just wishful thinking on my part. I have seen no growth in the past two weeks. In fact my husband asked me last night if I had lost weight because he thought my boobs looked smaller! Talk about being deflated! (he doesn't know I am trying this ... I wanted to surprise him)

If I decide that this routine is not working what is the best way to go about adjusitng it?

Any advice would be appreciated!! Thanks

[louig]

Hi Alekia,

I'm no expert on this, I haven't started my routine yet but i've have been researching NBE for a while now.

Firstly it can take 3-6 months before you see anything at all. Some women get tingling sensations in their breats, sometimes aches, sometimes itching, this is usually a sign of growth, but not all women get these signs and still grow. It may be that if you didn't notice any tingling during puberty then you may not get it now.

You don't seem to be having an side affects so far which is good, women often have to change their routine due to side affects.

Did you ramp up? If you overdose your estrogen receptors then they effectively stop working and so breasts won't grow. When starting it is often advised to "Ramp up" which means to increase your dose gradually to your target routine adding other herbs along the way. If you do stall, by all accounts you only need to take a day or two off to resensitize your receptors, or consider using progesterone cream.

It has been mentioned on this board that it's good to keep your body guessing in terms of how much herbs are recieved. You need to increase your estrogen but your body may get used to the set amount of increased estrogen coming into the body and deal with it as normal or stall instead of producing growth. This, I think, is where "ramping down" is advised, to gradually reduce you're intake of herbs over a few days and then ramp back up again. You may want to consider this.

This is just my opinion, but there are lots of wiser ladies/gents on this board who will hopefully correct me if i'm wrong or offer more experianced advice.

Good luck,

L x

[alekia]

Hi Louig,

Thanks for the tips. No, I haven't had any side effects, except that I did try adding hops to my massage and go SOOOO itcy and red. So I stopped that.

Yes, I did ramp up. I started with the massage alone for 4 days, then I introduced the herbs, one at a time for 2 days each. Maybe this was too fast?

Maybe I will try to ramp down and then back up again.

Thanks for your advice!

[alekia]

One more question Louig, how would I use the progesterone cream to help with stalling?

[Wenonae]

Louig-
You're right on target.

Alekia
I think your ramp up was a bit fast. Give each herb about 2-3 weeks to see if 'anything' is going on. To 'tweak', you'll have to ramp for each herb you want to consider. Many phyto-estrogens have other uses. Maybe select ones to use based on what would help your health.

Wen'

[alekia]

Thanks Wen! Bummer. Sounds like i need to stop and start again. I was following the basic directions in the flat to fab book, and the ramp up was 2 days per. I didn't find this website until after I had started. I will try again, I guess at the end of this cycle.

Any other suggestions? Is there any particular order that you reccommend starting the herbs?

Thanks

[Peachy]

Hi Alekia,

A quick question: what is the Gaba for?

Good luck!

[louig]

Hi Alekia,

Does Lucile not mention Porgesterone Cream in the book? Just i thought i'd read other NBEers saying Lucile recommended taking it before you start the routine and during, but i could be completely wrong!

Anyways Prog cream balances out the estrogen in your body, it's belived to re-sensitive the estrogen receptors.

It's prescribed for symptoms of estrogen dominance: fibroadenoma's, PMS, Cramps, Menopause etc. If you don't have any of these side effects then your body probably produces enough prog and you shouldn't need it but when taking so many phytoestrogens for NBE some women take it to counteract any possible stalling and estrogen overload. You take it during the luteal phase, 16-28 when your body should be producing prog to complete the next phase of your cycle, though i've heared varying instructions as to how often. Some women seem to take it everyday of their luteal, some just in response to pms etc, some just the last few days of their cycle.

I think it really depends on your body's state, if you're not prone to pms sysmptoms then you shouldn't really need it and if your body is producing enough prog then any extra would counteract the benefits of you routine. I think this is why it is advised to use sparingly and cautioulsy if you don't know for sure that you need it, using it for a day or two towards the end of your cycle shouldn't balance out all the extra estrogens but should re-sensitize. If you do get it make sure you get one with USP higher than 20%, use 1/4 - 1/2 teaspoon twice a day on thin skin i.e wrists, inside arm, gehind knee, but NEVER on the breasts as it hinders growth... and nobody wants that!

I'd take Wen's advice first though on ramping up slowly you don't want to overdo it from the off.


L x

[alekia]

Hi Peachy,

In Lucile's book she suggests using Gaba to increase your growth hormone if you are over the age of 30.

Alekia

[alekia]

Thanks Louig,

Yes, the book does talk about the cream, but only to use before you start the program during the luteal phase, and then during the 4th month when she recommends taking a month off as a break to give the body a break, and to resensitize. She didn't talk about using it in between.

I have never been one to have any PMS issues, etc, so I would guess that I make enough Prog. on my own.

I think i will stop the routine and start up again at the beginning of next month with a SLOW ramp up and see how it goes.

Thanks again for all of your advice!

[zanyzara]

I used Wahakia's wife ramp up table see below thread, this method worked fine for me.

beboard.proboards23.com/index.cgi?board=Routines&action=display&thread=1074738958

It is about 4 or 5 days before introducing different herbs to the routine.

One thing I would add, you need to have perseverance and patience doing NBE, it is already driving me mad!!!!!!!!

ZZ

[alekia]

Thanks ZZ!

How long have you been doing this NBE? I am pretty patient, just want to make sure I am not starting off on the wrong foot! I have printed up the link you sent me and will try it.

Do you know if weight affects growth very much? I am worried that to grow I am going to need to gain some weight.

Alekia

[zanyzara]

I have been doing NBE for almost 3 months, my routine is in the routines folder.

As with regards to weight gain I don't feel you need to put weight on to grow, I do try and eat more protein and good fats such as cashew nuts

ZZ

[shakira8]

What are cashew nuts good for?Their fat?

[zanyzara]

err

High in protein, also almonds are good but not as nice.
I am not a vegetarian but sometimes I have my veggie weeks so I try and eat nuts to provide me with extra protein.

The natural unroasted unsalted are the best, but trust me once you start you can't stop

ZZ