I don't understand you Americans anymore

[toosmall]

dot368 said:

That is a good statment but why can't none beleavers let us be. We can not read bibles in schools. None beleavers go out of there way to cut God out of everything and a lot of gays keep on saying there is no verse in the bible that state being gay is wrong,but it does. when we say something that God says is a sin and state are opinions we become crazy christian freaks. That we are going over board about everything but does not everyone, christian and nonchristians. I am just here to learn what herbs help and if they can work. Well peace to all.

Okay I dont want to sound mean but why did you even enter the discussion if you didnt want non-believers to state their opinions? Oh course they are going to have a different opinion, but like you said earlier, its our choice. There are a lot of people who think that when you state your opinions you are Crazy Christian Freaks, but the only Crazy Christian Freaks are the ones who fail to let themselves understand other people's points of view. They think that since they believe in God they are right, which is fine because to them they are, but they fail to try to understand what other people are saying because they are so caught up in thinking that if God said it, it has to be true. I'm pretty sure everyone here respects your opinion and is glad you take a stand for what you believe in so it's not like we're putting you down or anything because you are christian.

[toosmall]

oh yeah... and about not letting the bible in school... there are christian schools. You are allowed to pray in school. The "One Nation under God" thing is said in schools (I cant remember what it is called). There are books on God in schools. So I guess practicing religion in school does exist. But remember, not everyone is christian and allowing the Bible in school along with all of the other Christian things that are already there would be like pushing christianity on other people. If there were Bibles in schools, then I should be allowed to bring an Athiest Bible to school but chances are I would get kicked out in fear of me shooting up the school or soemthing.If bibles were allowed in school, I would fight to the death to get the same right to bring my Athiest Bible(if I had one.)

I dont know if any of that made sense, like I said before I am a spastic schizophrenic typer

[toosmall]

fawnmarie said:

The one thing I like about Americans is that when we finally confront our disgusting prejudices we fight them tooth and nail and stomp them in the dirt.

Fawn

What I cant figure out is how we are so ignorant to even have disgusting prejudices. Seriously, who came up with the idea that Blacks should be slaves, or women are less than men(okay I know who but out of respect I am not going to say anything). Still we are very ignorant.

[dot368]

I am not saying use the bible as a study I ment that kides can not read the bible in school on his or her spear time and what is up with this all american talk every country haves there wrongs just like us. Every where you go there is always something you are not going to agree with, no matter what state or country. There is always going to be war, immorality, hate crimes, prejudice, child abuse, rape,robbery. No matter what president is in office he can not fix everything. you know that you are right about gays being born gay and I know I am right that is not true we can just agree to disagree.We both know we can not change each others minds.

Dot

[dot368]

I have a best friend who does not beleave in God but I love her to death. We love to talk to each other about what we beleave in. I do not down play her because I do not beleave in what she beleaves. I just like to talk a lot and argue too ;D. Even if I do not get my point across. .

[dot368]

toosmall I was not talking about slaves or womens rights. thats not the subject here. if you was talking about me.

[PepeLePewtheDivine]

Dot,
muslim, budhist and all other religious teachings are left out of schools too.

[PepeLePewtheDivine]

I think the point that toosmall is trying to make is that 50 years ago, equal rights for women and african americans were not accepted the conservative christian people. How ashamed do the conservative christians feel about that now? Strangely reminiscent of today's gay rights movement...

[Jewelz]

If being gay were a choice You make it sound like it would be as simple as going down to your local supermarket and choosing whether you want either a nice big juicy sausage & a couple of dumplings for your evening dinner or a nice fresh piece of cod! ;D ;D

It isn't that simple I don't choose to be straight, i just am. Gays don't choose to be gay, they just are.

[Jewelz]

dot368 said:

I just wanted to say that everyone is born a certain race or born different as in deformaties. No one is born gay, thats by choice. God does not judge race or the way you are born as in body, but by your choices. Everything is played through the mind before it becomes an action or a feeling. You made a choice to be gay you are not born gay and even before I became a christian this was just common sense. Your mind is a powerful thing. Your body did not say "I am gay" your mind did. Then you made yourself beleave you are born this way. I have been with a women before but thats before I realize by choice it was just not right. I was not born to like other women I made that choice to like other women. Now by choice I beleave it is wrong and beleave in the word of God. I am not perfect and I do fail by my wrong choices, but thats why I thank God for Jesus. I am only human, But I do not say "this is how I am" and not try to change and say God will over look it and except it, because He will not. God gave us the freedom of choice.

If you have bi-sexual tendancies then yes that gives you a choice of whether you decide to be with a man or woman. You say you've been with a woman Dot, but you 'decided' you prefer to be with a man. Well you must have had bi-sexual tendancies in you because thats what allowed you to have the choice. The choice isn't there for me because i was born straight, it isn't in me to go with another woman not even to experiment to see if i like it. Its just not for me. Same if you are gay i would imagine, its not a choice its just in you.

[toosmall]

do you realize how much controversy there would be in schools if kids were allowed to read the bible? I know this because only a few people know im athiest and just from those few people I get harassed everyday. If kids brought bibles, what would the other kids who dont agree with their religion do? I'm not talking about 10 year olds. I'm talking about highschool students who like to find any way to push others around and they take anything they can get. Lets say bibles were allowed so I brought an athiest bible. I'd probably get "jumped" in the halls.

[toosmall]

PepeLePewtheDivine said:

I think the point that toosmall is trying to make is that 50 years ago, equal rights for women and african americans were not accepted the conservative christian people. How ashamed do the conservative christians feel about that now? Strangely reminiscent of today's gay rights movement...

thank you

[dot368]

12Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.

Colossians 3:12-13

Dot I am finished, Goodbye

[Wahaika]

Wow. Amazing discussion.

I suppose we could go back and forth on studies that attempt to prove both sides but that would be pointless since each side doing the studies are usually biased.

Whether gays are "born that way" or not is somewhat irrelevant. Heterosexuals are "born that way" but are not automatically justified in immoral behavior either.

For example, if two consenting adults of the opposite sex decide to do the horizontal mambo, and they just happen to be married to different people each, then we have a problem - adultry. Immoral, condemed behavior.

Do we agree on that point?

Wahaika

[flatandgreen]

I was very recently in high school in Arizona and Mormons were allowed to attend seminary in a building that, though across the street, was off campus. The placement of the seminary was VERY convenient for the students, and they attended seminary an hour a day and it was scheduled into their classes. Attendance was even taken.

There was also a Bible study group at school.

I had very close friends that would read Scripture in their spare time. There were Mormons, Jehova's Witnesses, and good ol' non-denominational Christians that would duke out their beliefs with each other and then make-up after the end of an hour or so.

I found high school an extremely confortable place to be religious or not religious. Students are more intelligent than we give them credit for. If parents can teach their children how to be comfortable in their faith, that comfort will rub off on their classmates and it won't be an issue even if they disagree with each other.

When I came out of the closet when I was 15 and started openly dating my close friend, it wasn't an issue for ANYBODY because I'd been so free and open about it that everyone else was, even if we disagreed with my moral choices. I could have been smoking pot or drinking irresponsibly in their eyes, but I accepted that they didn't like what I was doing and they accepted that I was going to keep doing it. People who were open and comfortable with their faith experienced the same comfort. I am a former Sunday school teacher and would know.


As for the gay stuff people have been dithering on about:

I don't understand why marriage is an institution that's defined solely by what the partners are doing with each other's genitals. If I choose sexual activity with some man and we want legal benefits, why should we get it? Why shouldn't I be able to combine assets with anyone else I see fit, like a best friend that I want to become a spinster with? If that friend and I combined our assets and lives and households, why should the fact that we're not swapping bodily fluids keep us from having the legal protection that people in that situation would benefit from?

My friend's family absorbed another family who's father had left them. For all intents and purposes, their family DOUBLED and they have to go through crazy legal wrangling to have their financial/emotional/dependent relationship recognized.

Also, I don't care whether my gayness is a choice or not. It's delightful and as useless as eating ice cream instead of vegetables -- and as decadent. If it's a sin, I'm counting it up with obtaining wealth, cohabiting before marriage, being a tax collector, being drunk too often. I know it says that rich people have a helluva time getting into heaven, but I sure do plan on becoming more affluent than I am now. I sure have cohabited before marriage. I sure do drink shamefully to oblivion every so often. A lot of us do these other things, so why is sapphic lovin' so reviled?

I get it. It's a sin. What was that bit in the Bible about looking to the plank in your own eye before picking the specks out of others? Leave what I do with another consenting adult alone. Chase after your Platonic forms, your justice, your morality -- and leave me to chase after what good I can find.

Also, I'm EXTREMELY nice to the people who go door to door looking to convert folks. They know my name and we always have wonderful Saturday morning talks. I'm willing to hear everyone's side, so now I'm just sharing mine.